Friday, November 11, 2005

Online Workshop Part 1: What to do about the Islamic Threat?

Bjørn Stærk continues to criticize me and other "Islamophobes". He should at least be honest enough to admit that I have never on this blog called for banning the Koran. In fact, I have several times stated that I think this is a bad idea. First of all, I don't like banning literature in general. Second of all, I think it is to our advantage if people can read the Koran. I've put up links to all of the most important Islamic texts, including 8 English Koran translations and several Scandinavian ones. That's obviously because I want people to read them.

I have announced earlier that I would like to run an online workshop during the last three to four weeks of blogging at Fjordman, which will end early December. Maybe I should start right away. I will start writing something about a certain topic, and I would like feedback from my readers, to hear your ideas about this. If I like what you write, I may include it in another, more comprehensive and conclusive post about this topic later. To my readers: Please notice that anything you write at Fjordman from now on will be considered the "property" of Fjordman, and that your writings here may be reused by me in later essays and posts. That's the idea.

Regarding my personal ideas, I have earlier stated my view that I think we need some major realignments internationally. I have seen several people advocate scrapping or at least ignoring as much as possible the UN in its present form, and build another organization of democratic states only. This would leave the West, but also other infidel countries such as India inside, and Islamic nations and non-democratic China without any direct influence over our policies. The EU is a post-democratic and anti-democratic organization that needs to go, too, especially if Turkey is supposed to join. Otherwise, I may start by quoting Susan's entry at Bjørn's blog:

Defending against the Islamic "threat"

Most of what I would do is already being done by the government of Denmark:

1.) End immigration from Muslim countries.

2.) Enact laws such as were done in Denmark to eliminate the abuse of family reunification laws. These laws apply to everyone BTW, not just Muslims.

3.) Deport illegal aliens, as well as any legal aliens who have committed a crime. (Again, applies to everyone, not just Muslims.)

4.) End welfare payments and encourage work.

5.) Try to encourage disbursement of immigrants into the population at large rather than allow them to ghettize. This will aid assimilation.

6.) Refuse any kind of special pleading or special exemptions for Muslims that go against the secular nature of our society. For instance, companies and public buildings should not be forced to build prayer rooms for Muslims (or for anyone else, for that matter.)

7.) Absolutely stand up for our Western values such as freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Again, Denmark is the exemplar in Anders Fogh Rasmussen's response to the Muslim ambassadors who tried to twist his arm over the matter of the mildly insulting Danish cartoons published in a newspaper.

8.) End the poisonous multi-culti, PC and Western-self-loathing ideology that is continually pumped into our societies by academia, the media, NGOs and "intellectuals". We are told constantly by our elites that we live in the worst civilization in the world, when in fact we live in the best one (and that includes the best one for minorities too, despite all our faults--has anyone ever seen the "Native Japanese served only" signs in Japan?). Absolutely refuse to give an inch on any value we hold dear, no matter how "insulting" it is to our Islamic brothers.

9. Encourage Muslims to convert to other religions by supporting missionary activities.

10. Stop trying to stifle the debate about how Islam is affecting our communities. Covering up evidence of Muslim wrong-doing in our communities, such as the government covering up rapes in Norway or the refusal of the French media to report how many cars have been "car-bequed", for fear of causing "racism," only makes matters worse.

11. End the nonsense of "celebrating our differences", diversity coordinators, and all the other bullshit that has been shoved down our throats by the leftist cultural warriors for years. It hasn't accomplished a multi-culti paradise; it's done exactly the opposite, making people more suspicious of other ethnic groups and more resentful of them. We should be celebrating our samenesses, not our differences.

12. Realize that Islam is a political system as well as a religion, and treat it as such when it makes political demands on our societies.

I don't support banning mosques or Islamic books, but I do support very strongly banning any type of special favor or special pleading for Muslims just because they have so many, many special demands and needs and accommodations. For us to give them their "complete way of life" means that WE don't get to have OUR complete way of life.


At November 11, 2005 11:02 PM, Blogger Bjoern said...

I didn't mean to imply that those were your views on how to save Europe from the Islamic threat. I look forward to hearing what your views are. It's one thing to write about how desperate the European situation is, but what worries me is the unspoken implication that a desperate situation requires despearate measures. So just how far are you willing to go to save Europe from the Muslims? And if it's not as far as others would go, and they got into power, would you stand up to them?

- Bjørn Stærk

At November 11, 2005 11:05 PM, Blogger Kledo said...

I've followed this discourse for some time preferring not to interfere. But now I’ve to say that Bjoerns argumentation and accusations against fjordman are totally unfounded and silly. Apparently his idea how to solve our worsening situation is to do nothing (I simply do not count arguments ala “we must love each other”).

I must admit I’m getting more and more annoyed by these do-gooders. They offer no solution but they are getting to be more and more loud. On the other hand I do not want to see Quran to be banned and I do thing that Bjoern Staerk must have right to speak freely under all circumstances, even though I see his argumentation pretty cynical with respect to what is happening in France, Belgium and Denmark.

At November 11, 2005 11:22 PM, Blogger sissyblue said...

Many apologies,,, that was my comment about banning the Koran. Fjordman is right, it shouldn't be banned. Everyone should read it just so they'll know what's at the heart of the problem:>)

At November 12, 2005 12:00 AM, Blogger Zach said...

Regarding Bjorn's comment above, I wonder what "save[ing] Europe from the Muslims" is worth. Put another way, what is the cost to us of Europe or the West generally, disintegrating into Muslim/Third-World degeneracy? My guess is that it is the cost of everything we hold dear, perhaps even our lives. I really hope that the solution can be found such that everything can be solved 100% peacefully and democratically. But let's not kid ourselves about what is at stake here. If things really do fall apart, the first thing to go will be our Western do-good moral sensibilities anyway.

At November 12, 2005 1:19 AM, Blogger dewat said...

The sad thing here is that the 12 points enumerated are just common sense.

At November 12, 2005 3:31 AM, Blogger Reliapundit said...

right on!

At November 12, 2005 3:33 AM, Blogger Reliapundit said...

right on Fjordy, that is!

your platform is right on!

if the ISLAMOTHUGS (not all muslims, just the you know whos) wont chilol then EXILE THEM

if fact: any immigrant from anywhere who won't assimilate should be EXILED/DEPORTED.

is this mean!?


we'd just be sending them HIME.

and there's no place like home.

At November 12, 2005 4:37 AM, Blogger Norman said...

Beware anarchists who would surely love to see western civilization disolve into chaos. These people will argue and fight to prevent us from defending ourselves. We must not let them get in the way of doing what is correct. I agree with all the recommendations made in this post. Number 11 is especially important for Americans. Our schoolchildren are not being taught American history and why the founding brotherhood fought for the creation of our ideals. They are clueless children who will lose their freedom if not careful.

At November 12, 2005 6:35 AM, Blogger bordergal said...

I agree that freedom of speech is important. My question is, where would you draw the line if you were the one responsible for making that decision?

At November 12, 2005 6:36 AM, Blogger simulev said...

Fjordman, "what do to about the Islamic threat", perhaps you missed the Swedish headlines in the paper city.

"Nalin Pekgul moves from the violence in Tensta [a immigrant populated suburb]
TENSTA. Nalin Pekgul, social democratic women association chairman, has after 25 years in Tensta become a profile that made herself known for her struggle in the suburb. But now she plans to move. She is worried about the increasing violence in Tensta and wants to protect her children.
In the radio interview Nalin Pekgul also told that the fundamentalist Islamic interpretations has become stronger. Her children have for instance started to question why mom does not wear a veil."

Nalin Pekgul is a Muslim of Kurdish origins.

At November 12, 2005 10:26 AM, Blogger Fellow Peacekeeper said...

Add one point to your program

13. Provide encouragement, financial incentives (how about 1-2 years welfare payment?), information and assistance services for emmigration back to countries of origin for all those immigrants unable or unwilling to assimilate.

At November 12, 2005 11:33 AM, Blogger Cosmophant said...

Saving Europe... it's very obviously not only about the Islamic threat.

I believe in separatism. Let the muslims take over the old European cities. Let the old nation states fall apart. Better to organize ourselves in smaller principalities. Where we can live in peace, unless attacked by a neighbour city.

The hardening conditions will lead to a resurge among European people, rediscovering our traditional Western values we will build new cities, living in peace in a pluralistic mosaic of smaller principalities, containing (i.e. excluding) the problematic areas.

Let's create hundreds of San Marinos, Andorras and Lichtensteins. Let's become settlers on our own continent. People will be able to organize their communities based on an idea they share. People who oppose the idea can be excluded.

Having all of Europe as a pluralistic mosaic of independent principalities is of course a utopia. But creating YOUR separatist community is very realistic. Already ithin a decade, time will be ripe for pushing for it.

It's the Western way, I would say!

At November 12, 2005 11:50 AM, Blogger simulev said...

Sweden takes a different approach as usual:
Islam and democracy (the seminars program and agenda)

Oh, what the ruling social democrats "forgot" to tell, they invited a HAMAS advocate.

At November 12, 2005 1:15 PM, Blogger darwiniangirl said...

Get the governments of Western countries to encourage women to have more children by offering them financial aid. That way the influx of immigrants would not be seen as necessary for the future workforce and the demographic decline of traditional Europe would be halted. If people here choose not to have further generations, then in a sense, we are to blame for our own demise.

At November 12, 2005 3:42 PM, Blogger Goll said...

just how far are the muslims willing to go to take over Europe Bjoern.Look around you.

At November 12, 2005 4:00 PM, Blogger bordergal said...


If taxes weren't so high, women would probably have more kids.
When the cost of childbearing is high for the middle class, they have fewer children in order to make sure that they can attain the same lifestyle through education etc.

Others have no problems shoving their child rearing expenses off on the state ergo taxpayers, and don't provide the same level of care.

It's quality versus quantity.
You also need to return to the idea that children are valuable and desirable, which idea has taken a big hit in Europe.

At November 12, 2005 4:59 PM, Blogger dennisw said...

If you are too busy to blog get someone you trust to continue the Fjordman blog. Could even be two or three people with one person in charge

We need your information in America. Australia and UK too.

At November 12, 2005 5:08 PM, Blogger Pastorius said...


Good list. I would add that the government has to put intelligence officers in all Mosques (all "houses of worship" if you believe these ideas should not specifically target Islam), immediately.

Any preacher who calls for Jihad (physical Jihad) should be immediately deported. Hate literature should be confiscated and trashed.

The things they say, and the literature they distribute in some Mosques threatens people and states with destruction. This should be illegal. It goes beyond free speech, into the realm of inciting violence.

At November 12, 2005 6:41 PM, Blogger Zach said...

I believe that Steve Sailers "buyout" proposal is one of the best practical solutions offered so far, and I strongly encourage everyone to read it. One of the great things about it is that it lets the market set the boundary of who should go, so it is more politically feasible I believe. For example, the assimilated, educated and productive Muslims (those that exist) would laugh at the idea of $X for returning to their home country, but the underclass would likely be quick to take the offer.

At November 13, 2005 3:54 PM, Blogger Esther said...


What do you mean by #9? I would think Europe is a non-religious continent with a Christian culture and Judeo-Christian ethics. Do you intend to spur a Christian revival?

What does missionary activity include? Are you suggesting baptising all Muslims? Forcibly? Having gov't sponsored missionaries? What about other minority religions? Would they be "fair game" as well?


At November 14, 2005 5:55 AM, Blogger ik said...

Some more ideas -

1. encouraging energy independence in any form so that there is less dependence on oil/gas from the middle east and the attendant corruption

2. Cleaning up financial systems so that money flows can be tracked - especially any money coming out of the middle east. This would involve a lot of things including ending the culture of secrecy in Swiss Banks /ending all those bogus companies in the carribean set up to save on taxes

3. Cleaning up history books and writing HONEST history including the History of Slavery in the muslim world, the history of Arabization in North Africa/Persia/South Asia/South East Asia.

4.Making sure that no more countries end up under the Islamic boot - every country which goes Islamic becomes a source of new Jihadis to conquer new lands.

5. Help Russia in every way possible - A strong Russia would help in a lot of ways - apart from being a good source of energy for all non Islamic lands.


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