Is Fjordman a Threat to World Peace?
Is Fjordman, and other "Islamophobes" like me, a threat to peace and stability in Europe? Bjørn Stærk seems to think so. He calls me "dangerous", a term he also uses for the person who killed Theo Van Gogh and the ones who are trying to kill Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Geert Wilders:Tonje vs Islamophobes
Bjørn Stærk: Fjordman is dangerous because he invents a desperate situation, the origins of a coming civil war, a situation made inevitable by the Evil of Islam, and which requires unstated desperate measures to avoid. I am very afraid of what those desperate measures will turn it to be, once the Islamophobes get around to thinking about it. Fjordman is dangerous because he does not understand Islam, and works to spread his confusion to others, thus making them less able to understand and come to terms with the culture of many of our immigrants, and less able to understand and fight the Islamist terrorist threat. Fjordman is like a fireman who comes to a burning house, but thinks the whole block is on fire, and by the time he comes around to saving the one house that is really burning, he has no more water left. Fjordman and his followers will hopefully never be in a position to introduce the desperate measures they imply are necessary to fight Islam, but they are in a position to undermine the cause they fight for by making us misunderstand the threat we're facing.
posted by Unknown @ 12:22 AM
20 Comments:
What could be more dangerous than an intelligent person (Fjordman) grappling with some of the critical political and social issues of the day without cowtowing to the altar of political correctness?
In my world, just about anything.
In Europe.... I have no idea what passes for linear thinking in Europe.
Well I'd say Fjordman is a real danger to Bjorn's mental health, a chap who seems to be rather too much in love with his own mind and its formulations.
The fact of the matter is that neither Bjorn nor Fjordman knows what is coming. The only proof will out when the laboratory of history has had its say. The argument is whether we are safer in a world with maximally free speech, or one in which we try to shut down prophets of doom lest they turn out self-fulfilling prophecy.
While prophecy does impose itself on and change the future, in a maximally free world, the people will tend to choose the most believable and reasonable prophecies. BUt Bjorn does not understand how life is a question of combining both reason and faith.
"Fjordman and his followers ..."
Yes, Fjordman -- we follow your every command!
From Bjorn's rant, I would say he is closed to being a danger to someone; especially those physically close to him.
Fjordman, I never knew what that guy Bjorn Staerk stood for, until now.
Needless to say, I'm on your side.
Outlaw Mike, Belgium
The muslims feel they are on a roll. They feel this way because they check in with Bjorn and his ilk. Hopefully they will keep checking in with Bjorn and not us, that way there will be no impetus for adjustment of their strategy.
The Question is:
how can Islamofobes be a danger? Do these Islamofobes come out of nothing or is there a cause for their fear? The real enemy should be the Left and not Islam. Islam was not a problem, when it was far away in North Africa and beyond. Because of Multiculturalism it has not only come and grown here, but it excesses remain unchecked. And that is why a movement of scared and angry people is gathering. They are looking for insight and direction and Fjordman gives it.
Snouck
http://snouck.blogspot.com
"Islamophobes make it more difficult to fight Islamism."
"Islamophobia is more of a conspiratorial worldview."
Now would like examples on the first, as for the second eg. "they are breeding to become majority and take power" It´s more complex than that, yet exactly that fact that islamists can say that there is a majority of moslems will make them go violently after the overall power irespectively of anyone would vote on them, they see themselves as the elite and avantgarde much like the bolcheviks, shaping the event of the world towards a higher purpose.
I dont think you really understand or want to understand how dangerous radical islam is, radical being the worst because it´s full flegded hate and the wish to destroy and kill. But mind I add the socalled moderate follow close by still feeling disgust and anger towards the suppossed oppression posed.
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Which steps would you take to save your country from the Islamic threat?
1° Cancel IMMEDIATELY all immigration from non-westerners for 5 years.
2° This includes an immediate stop of family reunions.
3° Expel immediately all "suspected" imams.
4° Brutal and especially violent crackdowns on suspected terrorists.
5° Make detention of suspected terrorists of up to 90 days without charges possible.
6° No regard for muslim "sensitivities" anymore. Done with the dhimmitude.
7° Building stop for mosques.
That's for starters Mr. Staerk. If you think I'm a thug, there's a nice mini Islamic Republic in Brussels I'd like to show to you. Come in disguise, e.g. under a burqa, to get out of it unharmed.
In his ignorance and stupidity, Bjorn is the danger to world peace. Appeasement and inaction have led to more wars and strife than have mutual deterrence: your enemy won't strike back if believes that you are strong and willing to take decisive action.
Although our enemy sees our strength, our vacillating beahvior and words of appeasers, such as Bjorn, have led to the belief that we won't stand up for ourselves.
Bjørn: I will answer that question within the next couple of weeks. I will soon leave the blogosphere, and I am preparing quite a few texts before this.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -- that's all."
- From Lewis Carroll
**
The political correctness uses often words like "islamophobe" and who opposes its views will be branded a bigot. Any citizen who questions the legitimacy of Islam as a peace religion will be condemned for "hate speech”. Hadiths and women treated under subhuman condition are Witch Tales that people talk about; all false, in the political correctness view.
Of course, Islam needs a reform. Anti-religion is not in stake here; everybody is free to practice their religion, unless the religion cuts anybody’s freedom and dignity. So, let the political correctness continue with its Humpty-Dumpty-ish speech (they are entitled to it, it’s a free society) granted at the expense of the common language, democratic society, freedom and a western social organization to which the majority of the people under Muslim regimes cannot have.
"Europe's islamism is a physical danger to us, Islamophobia is an intellectual danger."
Europe must have a different definition of Islamophobia. In the U.S. it is a myth of hate crimes against Muslims propagated by Muslim organizations (such as the biggest, CAIR) to cower anyone who disagrees with their agenda and to bolster Islamist apologists.
I had to remove my comment since they pulled the original picture after only a few hours. Chirac was shown dressed as an Iman, clutching the Koran, with the title,
"France negotiates with Muslim rioters"
Bjorn: Won't this lead to civil war, or at least serious unrest and attempts at Islamification? What will you do to minimize the risk of this?
The civil war is coming anyway, the Islamification is happening as we speak. Better to deprive the Muslim masses of as much manpower as is legally possible.
The situation has gotten so horribly bad that we're not going to prevent things from getting ugly. I have no readymade solution and I guess there are none, except outlawing Islam or deporting everybody who is islamic.
The best we can do right now is prepare for the fight and expose the lies of the left. The left is the very agent which allows Islamism to flourish. People have to be made aware that Islam is a DEADLY THREAT to civilization, and that the left is in fact speeding up the process.
The events of France, Denmark, Belgium and Germany will only increase in frequency and intensity and spread througout Europe. It is inevitable because the Establishment has set this in motion decades ago. Their "plan" is coming to fruition, though I am unsure if they foresaw or wanted violence, though it matters not because they always have the option to instill martial law to "keep the peace". Regardless of the minor nuances, this is a fight for survival of Europe and no one should lose sight of that fact.
Bjorn's argument is absurd. Akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Bjorn, you looking for the "good" Muslims is patently offensive to me. For one, many of the "good" Muslims should have spoken up in France and the other countries to decry the two week long rioting, yet there were only faint yelps from an embarrassingly few. The militants will not tolerate disorder and that is must to remember as well. When chaos comes about, I surely would hope you are not one of the stupid ones who thinks reason and communication will be the saving grace for your country or Europe, are you? I sorry to say this is a war between races, cultures, and religions.
The last thing to remember is this. While Muslims are violent and barbaric, it is not they who have stormed Europe THIS time. They have been invited for ulterior motives. Once they are dealt with, and I truly pray to God that it is done NON-violently. The attention of Europeans should be directed towards the REAL culprits, murderers, treasonists. They are the transnationalists, globalists, Marxists, elite. They have sold three continents down the river for money and power. They deserve the full wrath of Europe more than the Muslims, really.
One other thing, I hope the French have enough sense about them, as well as a long enough memory to understand their only saviour is Le Pen and not any other "actor". The only regret is that the election is 18 months away. Pity that.
The only saviour for Europe is repatriation of all non-Europeans. Not only the "bad" ones. Not only the ones with crooked teeth. Not only the ones with unshaved faces. A-L-L of them.
Re Bjorn's point that Islam and religion in general is not true. This is great intellectual folly. Whether you are religious or not, you should recognize that religions are full of anthropological truths, whatever mumbo jumbo they may be wrapped in.
A basic fact of human, as opposed to animal, society is that it depends on and is centered on signs, things and places of sacred significance. We depend on the sacred or its representation as a way of transcending our worldly conflicts. Humanity loves its culture because we are beings who have discovered that we could grow and prosper by substituting a love of the sacred for conflict over the physical or appetitive goods we cannot all simultaneously have.
Accordingly, the transcendent qualities of both our language and religion (and art) allow us to mediate the problems of violence and disorder.
Our relationship to the sacred is both fundamental and in ways irrational (and only fools deny that there is some inescapable amount of irrationality in human being). We are irrational because the emergence of the sacred sign on which we depend is somewhat arbitary or mysterious, i.e it is not simply reducible to worldly realities. THe sign, e.g. "apple", cannot be deduced from the thing it represents.
None of the secular and religious representations that structure any culture are determined in some rational or simply "true" manner. THey are not reflections or projections of the society in which they emerge; rather they are ways of transcending the existing society. Humanity first models itself on (its representation of) the gods, not vice versa.
When Muslims organize themselves in a rather decentralized religious community, a kind of democratic, universal, submission to the word of god, they are making a truth claim about humanity and its relationship to the sacred that Bjoern cannot simply wish away as untrue on some rational or empirical grounds. I have many reasons to reject their truth claim - I don't think Islam is as true as Christianity - but I don't pretend that the Muslims are not making a perfectly game claim to truth. The only real test of such truth claims is the willingness of people to follow them or not and the consequences of their ideas about human society for their ability to defend their ideas and society in a war.
THe market in ideas or religions, i.e. the laboratory of history, decides truth as people weigh questions of freedom, equality and the military success of societies that hold to certain truths.
WHen Bjoern becomes a more serious market player, rather than someone who is still trying to stand above the fray, like some kind old-fashioned nobleman who knows what is true for each and every one of us, then he may find ways to convince those among us who are yet unashamed in their salesmanship for the loyalties and prejudices they hold dear.
Ethnocentrist: I try to allow different views here, although I do enforce some mild censorship. But calling for expelling all non-Europeans is not just nonsense, but not very helpful for this blog. Please take it somewhere else.
To Fjordman and DP111,
Gentlemen, I respect both of you and your willingness to enlighten the masses to what is happening in Europe at the hands of Islam. Both of you should be proud and commended for that and I wholeheartedly give both of you the utmost of praise. However, I view both of you as nearsighted and attempting to micro manage a huge problem that faces us all. You have decided to focus on the Muslim horde due to their proximity to both of you and to their abject intolerance of what we hold so dear, freedom and individualism. It is easy to fight against an ideology that is so easily vilified and eagerly shows its not so hidden agenda.
DP111, you state in your points 1-4 that I attempt to divert the focus of the fight from the true adversary, Islam, to one of race. Also that others may follow this lead and that it tarnishes this blog as it gives the anti-racist, Marxist credence that we are right wing nutjobs, then finish with a small list of non-European advocates against Islam as well as the "model immigrants". Let me state clearly that this IS a matter of race of which Islam is only a portion of the fight. The fight is to preserve Europe at all costs. The fight is for the preservation of ancient homelands of a race of people that have given so much to humanity. The fight is not for us but for our progeny. So they will be able to bask in the history and take pride in their ancestral heritage. THAT is what this fight is for and the Muslims are only a fraction of the puzzle.
I flatly reject the notion that we must temper our tone in order to appease the Marxist left. Were it not for the barbarian horde that has all too rabidly shown its face time after time, there would be NO dialogue of this matter. Blogs like this would have been shut down and the owner probably brought up on charges of incitement of racial hatred. Were it not for the violence, raping, rioting, and burning, which even the most self-hating Marxist cannot ignore, Europe would be hurriedly marching towards its demise as has been the case the last decade or so. The people would be rejoicing in "diversity" with nary a wimper of objection. For this, we are forever indebted to the Muslim.
As to the few non-European combatants of Islam and the "model immigrants", again this is merely a plea towards our humanitarian guilt and the 6 decade long indoctrination that we, as a people, have to somehow destroy ourselves in order to show the world that we are not "evil". Again, this is rejected by me. While I admire and respect the non-European combatants, the only reason they are here fighting against Islam is because we have been foolish enough to allow genetically and culturally distant people in our homelands to begin with due to our leftist "tolerance" and "enlightenment". If that were never allowed to begin with, we would never have needed these "saviours". The good immigrant is another misnomer that will always end up looking for their ethnic genetic interest. We see it all over the western world with favouritism, nepotism, cultural isolationism, culturo-political agendas, outright aggression towards the host nation or a passive aggressive nature that is in place to subvert the true desires of the majority. I was planning on providing at least a dozen or two links to this effect, though I will not bother for now because we all know these examples of minority hostility towards the majority exist in many different facets mentioned above. If you both truly want to see, let me know and I will gladly oblige. It is also well known that once these "good immigrants" become the majority, which they surely will given their propensity towards high birthrates and our declining birthrates due to a multitude of reasons, of which one IS immigration, then we no longer control our nations, our destiny, our homelands, our culture, and ourselves. This is inevitable and has been reproduced throughout history. I know many, many non-white immigrants where I live and am immersed amongst them. Granted, as individuals, most are decent people, though I am not talking individuals nor should we attempt to muzzle our instinctive nature of self-preservation for this faux morality that has engulfed the west. I am 100% confident that if the roles were reversed, though they never will be, sympathy and morality would not be the first thing on many non-whites minds. I speak this way because I have taken the time, effort, and diligence to actually speak, eat, laugh, and live with our non-white friends. I haven't learned this from a website. I have spent years doing "research" and the results are not very promising. We are being ignorant and naive in thinking that if we just play nice, then they will as well WHEN they become a majority. Sorry, that is the furthest thing from the truth and most everyone knows this, though the level of comfort regurgitating this fact varies amongst us.
You two have managed to maintain the guilt under the guise that it is "Islam" that is the one and only problem. Yet, the remaining western world does not have as huge a Muslim problem as Europe does and it still has racial strife. The US with its blacks and Hispanics who hold visions of reconquest of not only the southwest US, but ALL of the US. Canada with its black and east and south Asian massive immigration problems that are causing violence in places outside of the major metropolises like Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver. Place like Winnipeg have been named the murder capital due to its influx of Africans. Australia and its Asian immigration that with dreams of becoming the future managerial class and maintaining its hold while native Australians become the underclass, according to Professor Andrew Fraser. You see, Islam is a proximate issue and you are only dealing with a proximate problem. The ultimate problem is our stupidity and guilt that has led us down the path towards annihilation.
DP111 you mention the legacy of the fighters of WWI and WWII. Let me just say that I am confident if there was a way to bring back all those brave men and show them what their fighting has gotten western man, they would drop in disbelief and sorrow. THIS is NOT what they fought for. They fought for our people and our freedom. NOT for stir fried rice, or jerk chicken, or curried lamb, or enchiladas, or any other gustatory delight that we have decided to sell our souls for. The legacy of the world wars is for European man and not the rest of the world. The rest of the world couldn't give two shits for us were it not for our money and that is the bare boned fact. We delude ourselves in thinking that we are morally superior with the charity, yet it is simply disgusting that we have wrecked what our ancestors gave us. For if we fill all of Europe with distant peoples, the memories of Mozart, Beethoven, Bernoulli, Currie, Aristotle, Plato, Newton, will not be a distant memory, but a memory no more. We see the revisionism in the US with "dead old white men" such as Washington, Jefferson, and Franklin. That is the respect they are given for creating a country that has allowed this "racaille" to step foot in it.
Finally, I will never silence myself in order to appease anyone. I have come too far to tiptoe around sensitive issues. I fight for my beloved homeland and my ethny and for you two as well. I will continue to fight long after you two stop due to fatigue or fear. This is a battle of survival and we must survive. There will be no second chance.
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