Will Muslim Immigration Trigger Wars in Europe?
Bjørn Stærk's presence in the debate about Muslim immigration and rape generated a lot of responses and interest, so I made another thread to continue with some of the issues raised.Bjørn:
Please make yourself clear: Will there be a "war" where Muslims try to take over Europe? Is there a rape "epidemic"?
I'll answer the second question first. My greatest strength as a blogger, which is sometimes also my weakness, is that I always look several decades ahead when I analyze events. Maybe I do extrapolate too much every now and then, but for the most part, it can be quite useful to think this way. Most people rarely do. Bjørn Stærk has himself answered claims from the media that bloggers are "too right-wing". We fill a need that is not met by the traditional media. I write a lot about problems regarding Muslims and immigration in general beacuse I believe these are very important and serious issues that are not dealt with properly by the media. I notice that Bjørn doesn’t really find anything factually wrong in the posts I have made about rapes, he merely objects to my choice of words. The only time I have used the term "rape epidemic" is in the case of Sweden, the very first post I ever made on this blog. I haven't used it since, but that doesn't have to mean that I was wrong in employing it the first time. The official number of rape charges in Sweden has more than tripled in 30 years. Sounds pretty bad to me, and I'm not the only one who reacts to these staggering numbers. Does a tripling of the numbers constitute an "epidemic"? Maybe, maybe not. But this game of semantics hardly matters to the women who are victims of this, while the authorities are unwilling to discuss whether this enormous increase may have something to do with the huge influx of Muslim immigrants Sweden has witnessed during those same 30 years. In the worst areas, people now seem to be so tired of inaction by the authorities that some of them have started taking matters into their own hands. Things have to be pretty bad before people in nanny-state Sweden resort to vigilante justice:
Wrong man snatched in rape revenge
A man who was kidnapped in Malmö early on Monday morning was probably the victim of a revenge attack, police have said. Relatives of the rape victim contacted a woman from Malmö and two men from Gothenburg. The trio then rented a car, armed themselves with knives and sawed-off shotguns and went late Sunday night in search of the rapist. “I’ve never heard of anything like this before. It’s not about hardened criminals but everyday Swedes who chose to be vigilantes” Bo-Anders Jönsson from Malmö police told Skånska Dagbladet.
Regarding your first question: Yes, I’m pretty sure this immigration will trigger wars in Europe. This continent has simply lost control over its own borders, and the native population is being replaced at an astonishing rate in many of its major cities. Europe has a rather violent history, and migrations of this magnitude have usually triggered wars between the original population and the newcomers:
Fjordman:
The Second Fall of Rome?
The population movements we are witnessing now are the largest and fastest in human history. In Europe, they can only be compared to the period often referred to as the Great Migrations, following the disintegration of the Roman Empire. However, during the 4th and 5th centuries, the total human population of the world was in the order of 200 million. Today, it is 30 times larger than that, and still growing fast. We also have communications that can transport people anywhere on earth within hours, and media that show ordinary people how much better life is in other countries. On top of that, the Romans didn't have human rights lawyers advocating that millions of barbarians be let into their lands. Is it a coincidence that the last time we had migrations like this was when large parts of the European continent suffered a complete civilizational breakdown? Is that what we are witnessing now? The second fall of Rome?
The situation becomes even worse when we enter another factor: Islam. The Islamic world is at war with pretty much everybody, everywhere. Both Thailand and the Philippines, countries where the Muslim population is not much larger than it is in some Western European countries, are facing war. Even Norway, a country with no colonial history and a Muslim population of only 2-3 %, has already experienced shootings to intimidate critics, gang fights, terror threats and attempted terror attacks, as well as visits from supporters of bin Laden. It's pretty amazing that such a small population group can create so much instability. And it's not a good omen for the future. As Herr Unswedenizer wrote to Bjørn in the other thread:
Actually, the burden of proof is on your side. Why should Norway be any different from, let's say Thailand? Everywhere in the world where muslims become 10-20% or more of the population, a war is started. What makes you think that Norway is so very special?
In fact the effect will be stronger and sooner, since the muslim population will be concentrated to the cities. So they will reach 10-20% very soon there, and at that there is also the process of Scandinavians leaving, which makes the ratio even higher. And still I haven't accounted for new fresh immigrants (or the illegal ones). At 10-20% of the population the Jihad enters a new phase. It never failed. Important current examples are Thailand, Phillipines or Nigeria.
Countries such as France, Holland and Sweden could soon reach a point where the Muslim population will create something akin to civil war, as it already has in the above mentioned nations:
Mugged by la Réalité
FR D RIC ENCEL, PROFESSOR OF international relations at the prestigious Ecole Nationale d'Administration in Paris and a man not known for crying wolf, recently stated that France is becoming a new Lebanon. The implication, far-fetched though it may seem, was that civil upheaval might be no more than a few years off, sparked by growing ethnic and religious polarization. In recent weeks, a series of events has underlined this ominous trend. On March 8, tens of thousands of high school students marched through central Paris to protest education reforms announced by the government. Repeatedly, peaceful demonstrators were attacked by bands of black and Arab youths--about 1,000 in all, according to police estimates. The eyewitness accounts of victims, teachers, and most interestingly the attackers themselves gathered by the left-wing daily Le Monde confirm the motivation: racism.
Some of the attackers openly expressed their hatred of "little French people." One 18-year-old named Heikel, a dual citizen of France and Tunisia, was proud of his actions. He explained that he had joined in just to "beat people up," especially "little Frenchmen who look like victims." He added with a satisfied smile that he had "a pleasant memory" of repeatedly kicking a student, already defenseless on the ground. Another attacker explained the violence by saying that "little whites" don't know how to fight and "are afraid because they are cowards." Rachid, an Arab attacker, added that even an Arab can be considered a "little white" if he "has a French mindset." The general sentiment was a desire to "take revenge on whites."
The danger has been demonstrated in the Indian subcontinent:
India and Pakistan: why the mass killings occurred
Once the Muslims got wind of the coming political windfall, they decided to settle scores with those idol-worshippers that Allah hates with such passion. So the Muslims initiated violence in West Punjab which is now in Pakistan (but was merely part of unified Punjab province earlier). Once Hindus and Sikhs on the Indian Hindu majority side got wind of Muslim barbarity, they retaliated. In that sense there is nothing unusual about it except scale. The story is almost always the same. Muslims initiate violence, Hindus and Sikhs retaliate. So once mob fury was unleashed, it got out of hand.
Muslims harass and attack the infidels until non-Muslims retaliate. At some point, it becomes a matter of simple survival, and then all kinds of political correctness and inhibitions will be dropped. The rapes we are seeing in Scandinavia are part of a much wider pattern. Please remember that "Asian" is Brit media newspeak for "Muslim" from Pakistan or Bangladesh:
Documentary pulled over race fear
Channel 4 has pulled a documentary about social workers in Bradford from its schedule after police warned it could increase racial tension. Due to be broadcast on Thursday, Edge of the City followed social workers and clients, including young white girls who had been abused by Asian men. It reported that white girls as young as 11 were being sexually abused by Asian men who encouraged their dependency on drugs over a period of time. In July 2001 Bradford was the scene of some of the worst race riots Britain has seen for 20 years. West Yorkshire Police said 326 officers were injured during the disturbances, leading to two stabbings, 219 arrests and an estimated £27m worth of damage.
Asian Vigilantes
An investigation for Today has found disturbing evidence that Asian youths in parts of Oldham are trying to create no go areas for white people. Last year the police investigated record levels of racist attacks in Oldham.Of the 572 cases, 60% turned out to be white victims. Pakistanis make up the majority on the Glodwick estate just west of the town centre. Some youths speak the language of racial hatred. It's not clear whether this is bravado but their message is blunt... white people keep out. Many openly admit to carrying out what they see as revenge attacks on white people as part of a tit-for-tat campaign. One told us: "There are signs all around saying whites enter at your risk. It's a matter of revenge. It's about giving as good as you can take."
These problems now exist throughout most of Western Europe, albeit to different degrees:
Jihad Watch Vice Director Hugh Fitzgerald:
Europeans are now coming out of a deep dream of peace. There is no peace. They have done something tremendously stupid, and more than stupid, by allowing in people who bear in their mental luggage something inimical to Western ways, who are hostile to Western political and social understandings, and who -- save for a few who will leave Islam altogether -- cannot be integrated. These peopole, now close to 20 million, also reproduce at rates three to four times higher than the indigenous Infidels. The mathematics of this, and the misery of this, and the menace of this, is clear.
DP111:
The Sick Man in Europe
What we are seeing in the West is the opening salvoes of the continuation of the Jihad against Christendom, that was brought to a close at Vienna in 1683. The new onset has come about as a direct consequence of allowing Muslim immigration to the West. Muslims are mandated to the Jihad and it is foolish of us to expect that they will refrain from doing so. It is our foolishness that gave them the opportunity to do so from within.
I do not think our societies, geared as they are to free and open thought, can continue with this continuous assault on freedom. If this assault is not brought to a halt soon, then free society will start to perish, and with that the economy. It may not be evident immediately, but perish it will in the fullness of time. If the current trend of increasing conflict continues, then we are irrevocably headed in the direction of a major armed conflict with the Islamic world. This is also going to lead to a civil war within Europe of unimaginable proportions. Europe’s civil wars (WW 1 and 2) have not exactly been powder-puff affairs.
Even though this conflict may start out as civil wars in a handful of countries, it could spiral out of control and spread to much of the continent, dragging in foreign fighters from the Arab world. The Islamic world is now at war with most of the major powers on the planet at the same time, from the USA to India and from Russia to Western Europe. It is a real possibility that we will get a full-blown world war because of these events. If so, I don’t think this will happen 50 years from now, but within the coming generation:
The Clash of Fascisms
Tens of millions of immigrants pour into Europe, changing the face of the continent forever without any real debate about the issue. People feel like strangers in their own cities, but are being silenced as "racists" if they object to this. There is a widespread feeling that Europe is descending into chaos, and that the governments are unwilling or incapable of stopping this. If this situation continues, some people will cry out for a Strong Man to “cleanse Europe of foreigners" and restore its honour and wounded pride. And He will step forward. By then, you won’t have a “Clash of Civilizations” in Europe, but rather a Clash of Fascisms: Euro-Fascism vs. Islamo-Fascism. Ayaan Hirsi Ali fears that if we don't take effective measures, now, ''the Netherlands could be torn between two extreme rights'': an Islamic one and a non-Islamic one.” She’s right. Major cities across the continent are now powder kegs of ethnic and religious tensions, built up after decades of failed immigration policies and an absence of a genuine debate. Common sense says that when you have a powder keg waiting to explode, adding even more powder is not the smartest thing to do.
Ali Sina: The Useful Idiots
Recognizing Islam is accepting your own death warrant. Muhammad said kill the unbelievers. You are an unbeliever. If you recognize Islam, you are agreeing to be killed. Isn't that stupid? Muslims in Europe have gained too much power. The more Muslims become powerful the weaker Europe becomes. Europeans must realize that Islam is not just another religion in their multi cultural religious rainbow but rather is their enemy. Islam aims to destroy their culture, their democracy and take away their freedom. They must realize that Muslims are not going to integrate in their countries but rather want to swallow them. If the Europeans do not wake up soon and do not start deporting the Islamists en masse and denouncing Islam as their enemy, they will be annihilated sooner than they can think. The threat of Islam today, is much greater than the threat of Nazism during the 1930s. Failure to address this threat will result in a war more devastating than the Second World War.
posted by Unknown @ 8:55 PM
18 Comments:
yes very good essay Fjordman, Colonization is a social form of Jihad and you are so correct when you point out islam is fighting all over the world... 2/3rds of all religious persicution id by the islamists.
Heikel, is right, the little French whites don't know how to fight. It's been bred out of them., but what about the big Nordic whites? Do they remember how to stand up for themselves. England and Australia have shown the way. They made it clear to all immigrants -- either obey the law of the land or face deportation.
One of our oldest and most beautiful cities has been all but destroyed by the ravages of nature and within hours there are thousands of rescue vehicles already on site helping the victims. The president didn't do a lot of navel gazing and debating options while people were in need . . . and BTW wouldn't it be nice if some of the oil producing countries like Norway, offered to divert some oil to the U.S. to help out until we get our own supplies back on line.
The rise of a xenophobic right nation party somewhere in Europe is all but inevitable. The Muslim invasion is slowly but surely waking European rightism from its long slumber. For all their boasting and machismo the Islamists are no match for rising and reconstituted European fascism. It will be a horrible struggle between Bad and Worse.
The BNP grows stronger in the UK. Vlaams Belang grows in Belgium. The Progress Party, the National Front, etc. Some of these parties may achieve power. More likely a new party or a reformed mainstream party will adopt the ideas of turning back the Islamist and muslim immigrant tide.
The losers will ultimately be what's left of European Judaism. Caught between a anti-Semitic nationalisms and Jew-hating Islam the Jews of Europe will have no choice but to flee.
Another loser could be America. Many (even most) Euro-rightists are suspicious of American or simply anti-American. So it goes.
Not to be a pessimist but long dark days are ahead. The struggle between militant European nationalism and Islamic supremism will be violent, personal and intimate. Beirut, Sarajevo, this is the future of many European cities. Sad but true.
Some information about India and Pakistan @
http://www.bharatvani.org/books/
mla/
and
http://www.bharatvani.org/books/
tcqp/
Other information not related to India and Pakistan is also at our blog.
The West needs to wake up, before it's too late!
Asians Becoming More Isolated as Urban Ghettoes Grow
"Asian enclaves in British cities are growing in both their size and isolation and are likely to expand even more as a result of further immigration ...
By contrast, black communities were far less likely to be ghettoised, because of cultural similarities - for example, speaking English and coming from the largely Christian Caribbean."
Culture is everything in this context. Western Christian culture is incompatible with large numbers of Muslims. To argue otherwise is silliness.
Herr Unswedenizer,
I have extensive coverage of the Michael Graham story at my blog. There are several articles on Graham there, starting on July 29. I invite you to read those articles. Also, Graham was not the only target of CAIR. Also a target was Geoff Metcalf. CAIR intends to colonize America.
GBW is learning (has learned?) that Islam is more a geopolitical ideology than a religion.
I very much agree with your statement: "I hereby rename the right-wing as the traditional wing, and the left-wing as the dhimmi-wing."
And as Thomas the Wraith said, "[L]ong dark days are ahead. The struggle between militant European nationalism and Islamic supremism will be violent, personal and intimate."
This one gives an idea as to what is happening in the United States:
http://alwaysonwatch.blogspot.com/
2005/08/did-you-know.html
History of Islam
Spain, in short, was better off Islamic. The wrong side had won.
Yeah, right. The real tragedy of the Reconquista was the expulsion of the Jews from the Iberian Peninsula, something that no doubt contributed to the economic decline of Spain.
Islam means "submission", which is very different from "peace", almost the opposite. You can only have peace if you sumbit to Islam or Islamic rule, that's the thinking. And it's not even correct, since Muslims would continue fighting over who is a "good" Muslim or a "bad" Muslim.
What you need to show is that irrevocable cultural differences between Muslims and native Europeans will lead to unrest and civil war. Not by some vague argument to the past, but by pointing out the forces that operate in our society, and how they might force us down this path.
Irrevocable cultural differences will lead to war between Muslims and anybody else, Europeans or not. Which is in fact what is happening, from Thailand to Nigeria and from India to the Philippines. The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that Islam can in fact coexist with non-Muslims in peace over a prolonged period of time.
Many of my returning readers have a great deal of knowledge about Islam, from DP111 in the UK to Ik in India, Irene Adler in the USA and Herr Unswedenizer in Sweden. These people would not come back to my blog again and again if they sensed that I have absolutely no idea what I am talking about. I do. It is pretty arrogant of you to dismiss the opinions of people who do in fact have a lot more understanding of Islamic teachings and Islamic history than you do.
when you top it all off by being inaccurate and hyperbolic
What have I been inaccurate about? Even you admitted that you didn't find any factually wrong assertions in my posts about rapes. Your claims about "inaccuracy" and "hyperbole" seem to boil down to one single word that I have used one single time: "Epidemic". Does a tripling of the number of rape charges in Sweden parallel with the ongoing mass-immigration constitute an "epidemic"? I don't know, which is the reason why I haven't used that word since. But I don't find it ridiculous to think that it does. If that's all you can come up with of "inaccuracy" and "hyperbole", then I think I have done a pretty good job.
Bjoern,
You say that Western Civilization is a powerful memeplex, and that Islam would be forced to adapt or die out in the face of it.
Western Civ. was a pretty powerful memeplex already in the 16-17th centuries, but Islam did not adapt. Instead, Islam pushed as far as it could (the gates of Vienna) and was then repelled.
A timely article from the Weekly Standard. The Peculiar Alliance - Islamists and neo-Nazis find common ground by hating the Jews
Hi Bjørn.
As you correctly note, Fjordman believes that Islam in Europe portends nothing but bad news. You seem to think (and please correct me if I'm not understandng you) that Muslims in Europe represent a sort of cultural absorption, with their gradually coming to resemble the Europeans they found when they got there.
I'd like to ask you for your anecdotal experiences about Muslims in your country, and anywhere else in Europe where you've traveled and feel qualified to talk about. In general, do they assimilate? In particular, do they intermarry? Do you and your non-Muslim friends socialize with them? Do they cooperate harmoniously side-by-side with non-Muslims at work? Do they start their own businesses that trade more or less evenly with Muslims and non-Muslims (like the Arab grocers in Paris)? Do they eventually move out of Muslim enclaves (if they exist) to live among non-Muslims?
Muslim immigration to Europe is in historical terms fairly recent, but the generally placid absorption of European Muslims into the broader Western culture would seem to require that these things occur. (Dogmatic multiculturalism would say otherwise, but I reject that belief.) So are they occurring in large numbers yet?
Your contributions are always very interesting, so I'll be interested in your impressions of these matters.
As Bjorn notes, we have a long history of Cassandras, and they are usually wrong. However, sometimes cultures and civilizaitions do crumble, so we cannot afford not to listen to our prophets of doom. To my mind, the most telling sign that Europe may be crumbling is its very low birthrate, especially the non-immigrant birthrate. A people who don't want to reproduce themselves? How is one to take their future seriously? Integration of newcomers? But what should the newcomers see as workable about the culture they are joining that cannot reproduce itself? This is what I would like Bjorn to answer. And thanks for the efforts in debate already.
So Björn believes that Islam is peace...
Amazing, you should informyourself about Islam, it is an evil, it is not a question of interpretations, anybody can read it and check. May be there will be moslems that will be able to "sweet" the violent parts of their texts, and may be this is the only path to avoid their and our disaster.
Why do you think that wherever Islam reigns no other religion can flourish? Why are they at war with everybody else?
You have written interesting things about the accuracy of the word "epidemic" but it is amazing that you don´t care that most of the rapes are commited by muslims.
Are your multicultural faith more important than the victims?
To "innlegg": You are welcome to criticize my views, but do so in English, as most of my readers are non-Scandinavians. Also, if you believe any of my posts are incorrect, please state why, specifically.
Bjørn Stærk:
To assume that the meeting between our culture and Islam will play out in the same way as with any other culture is to ignore the large number of ways in which our culture is unique. We're the single most powerful, creative, adaptive, wealthy, knowledgeable, seductive and frightening culture in history. On what basis do you conclude that Islam will face us unchanged? In memetic terms, an Islam that is able to adopt the strengths of our culture will be superior to an Islam that doesn't, and will gradually replace it.
What is wrong is to assume that just because other religions, such as Christianity, managed to reform and adapt to the modern world, Islam will do the same. I don't think it will, and Islam is fundamentally different from Christianity in many important ways. There is no equivalent of sharia in Christianity, no ultra-violent founder and a formative period as a movement separate from the state.
You are confident that Islam will "adapt" to our ways. But history is full of examples of cultures who have failed to adapt to a changing world, and died out or got crushed because of this. As Herr Unswedenizer, I suspect Islam belongs to this category. Islam will die as a global force during this century, simply because its core ideas aren't flexible enough to adapt to a modern world. The problem is that Islam includes one fifth of humanity. Which means that even its passing could rock the world.
"Islam will die as a global force during this century, simply because its core ideas aren't flexible enough to adapt to a modern world."
Only if it isn't able take over the world first and revert it to an Islamic version of the dark ages. You are right that it cannot adapt; but it also cannot evolve. If Western and East Asian cultures can last until oil-based energy becomes a thing of the past, the current Islamic world will look more like it did two hundred years ago than an evolution from what it is today.
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