Saturday, November 12, 2005

Is Islam Doomed?

An interesting debate I stumbled across at the FFI forum. Posted at LGF yesterday, now reposted here. Bob here has some good points, but still makes several mistakes from my point of view. The Aztecs had less advanced weaponry than the Westerners they faced. So do Muslims today, yes, but they can buy infidel weaponry and technology due to hundreds of billions of Arab petrodollars. The Islamic awakening we are witnessing now has several causes. One is ironically infidel technology such as the Internet, which makes it possible to bypass the traditional institutions and establish contacts across the global Ummah. The other is Saudi oil wealth, used to finance Jihad and buy influence. The third is an unprecedented population growth that has been allowed to be dumped on infidel countries through immigration. Unless all these three main causes are dealt with, we could lose.

The Internet is a double-edged sword, which can also be used against Islam. That's what I am doing here. The oil question is complicated, and probably deserves a separate thread. Immigration is crucial. Demographic Jihad is the most important kind of Jihad right now. Yes, Islam is a failure in creating anything other than trouble. Left alone without petrodollars, the Islamic world would collapse. But this requires concerted infidel containment, and absolutely zero Muslim immigration of any kind allowed. If left unchecked, Muslim immigration alone could destroy Europe from within, as we are already seeing indications of in France. An Islamic Europe would soon be reduced to third world status and become an empty shell, just like the earlier civilizations in the Middle East. But in the meantime, it would be a source of global instability and be used as a staging ground for Jihad activities against other infidel powers. In the end, the Americans, the Russians, the Israelis, the Indians and maybe even the Chinese would be forced to subdue Eurabia by brute force because it would represent a threat against their security:

There is no Islamic threat to the West

There is no Islamic threat to the West

bob (Paris, France):

There is no Islamic threat to the West. True, birth rates are high among Muslim populations. True, Iran is developing its nuclear capacities. But when I see that Muslims are fired by a simple and simplistic destructive urge - torching ambulances, cars, schools or whatever - I feel optimistic rather than pessimistic. The urge to destroy for the sake of destruction is a sign of weakness and not strength. Cortes learnt about Aztec myths and used them to manipulate and alter the Aztec perception of the arrival of the Spanish. The Aztecs were in part defeated from within their own worldview by a mind that could also place itself within that same worldview. Aztecs were imprisoned and defeated by their own narrative paradigm. The West has Orientalists. Bernard Lewis is an adviser to the US government. Muslims who are opposed to the West do not have 'Occidentalists'. For them ‘The West’ is contained solely within their own narrative paradigm ( Crusaders, enemies of Islam, supporters of the Zionist entity, associators, sinners, fornicators etc who are 'doomed' to defeat because Allah is not on their side etc etc). When Muslims make a critique of the West they can only do so through the lense of Islam. Because they do not understand US and we can understand THEM and although we might have a tough time ahead of us, when push come to shove, it is not us who will be either pushed or shoved but them.

Of course Muslims want to dominate the world. Just as Communists did. But Communism imploded. Islamic societies CANNOT be Islamic and SUCCESSFUL (meeting the basic aspirations of their peoples) at the same time. Discontent in Muslim societies is expressed by a further lurch towards Islamic radicalism which in turn FAILS the society which it is supposed to 'save'. There WILL be a growth in Islamic radicalism and Islamic terror. Of that I am sure. But in the long term ALL forms of Islam will turn out to be a failure. There is ONLY one dominant culture in the world, the one that emerged from Western Europe about four hundred years ago and which spread to America and the rest of our planet. Islam today is not pro-active but reactive. Rejecting Western culture which has become universal is like European hunters and gatherers rejecting the agriculturally-based neolithic revolution that spread out from Mesopotamia about 6000 years ago. It is DOOMED to failure.


They are not attacking in a way that we could use our strengths, they attacking us at where we're most vulnerable and using our weaknesses against us. They're using our entrenched political correctness ideology to get away with any hate speech. They're free to propagate their religion while the dominant Christian faith is being erased. They're using our laws against impinging on our personal liberty and political correctness against us by preaching hate, plotting and attempting violence all the while our hands are tied behind our backs in our inability to profile. They're using our welfare benefits to their advantage when you know damn well they are not going to be willing to support non-Muslim pensioners when their numbers are large enough to resist. They have their demographics on their side. No amount of powerful firepower is going to solve these problems. I think you all are wrong. I think Islam has an excellent chance at winning.


At November 12, 2005 7:57 PM, Blogger France Sucks said...

It really isn't a matter of Islam winning or losing it is if Islam will destroy europe in the process. If France becomes an Islamic state it's nuclear weapons will be under the control of the Islamists and France will have to be destroyed.

At November 12, 2005 10:31 PM, Blogger sissyblue said...

I think this describes the situation pretty well:

One Tin Soldier:

"Listen children to a story that was written long ago 'Bout a kingdom on a mountain, and the valley folk below

On the mountain was a treasure buried deep beneath a stone
And the valley people swore they'd have it for their very own.

Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend
Do it in the name of heaven, justify it in the end
There won't be any trumpets blowing, come the judgment day
On the bloody morning after - one tin soldier rides away.

So the people of the valley sent a message up the hill asking for the buried treasure, tons of gold for which they'd kill

Came an answer from the kingdom: "With our brothers we will share. All the secrets of our mountain, all the riches buried there."

Now the valley cried with anger, mount your horses, draw your sword!
And they killed the mountain people, so they won their just reward
Now they stood beside the treasure on the mountain dark and red
Turned the stone and looked beneath it -

"Peace on Earth" was all it said."

In other words they want what Western culture has developed, but once they get it, it will collapse because they just don't think the same way (truth for instance is a foreign idea to them and you can't have science without pursuing truth).

At November 12, 2005 11:55 PM, Blogger sissyblue said...

This is an interesting article, "What is the Koran?" by Toby Lester

At November 13, 2005 4:12 AM, Blogger OB1SR said...

If you are afraid of islam so much then why don't you convert so you can save yourself from it ?

just kidding hehehe, well look here i know how frustrating it is, but you must know how to distinguish between an islamic act and a terrorist act.

what is being done here and there from explosions, murder, plane crashings, suicide bombing and many more is nothing more the muslims themselves would say terrirism acts.

the islamic religion never and will never support such acts, by whatever means, islam is a religion of peace, and those who use the word jihad are but ignorant foolish people who would use the religion to do their evil biddings which is terrorising.

also about islam ruling france or whatever that is, in an islamic prophecy, it is mentioned the states of muslims, how they were and what will become of them.

whatever you will say about islam will never beable to effect islam or muslims, because it is all destined, you reading this now was destined as many other things.

if you want to know more i'll be there to tell you.

At November 13, 2005 4:27 AM, Blogger Fjordman said...

OB1SR: Islam is inherently destructive, and will eventually destroy itself. But it does have the ability to hurt. The issue for Europe is to avoid being dragged down with it.

Islam is about terror and death, and I question whether it should be labeled a religion at all.

At November 13, 2005 4:32 AM, Blogger OB1SR said...

Islam is about terror and death.

from all of the ancient history i've learned, it's the total opposite of what is said about it, you would only think that when you see all of those terrorists running around doing harm and only label themselves as muslims.

i know how you feel, but the question is, have you ever met and befriended a non-terrorist muslim ?

if you say a muslims terrorist , i tell you an infidel, and he has nothing to do with islam.

At November 13, 2005 10:09 AM, Blogger France Sucks said...

"Really?" How about checking out some quotes from the Koran:

When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.

Q 9:5

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.

Q 9:73

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient.

Q 4:34

Here's some more:

“Seize him, and bind him, And burn him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain the length of seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High." (Koran 69:30-37)

“Strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (Koran 47:4).

“Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers"; "smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" (Koran 8:12; cp. 8:60).

“slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace..." (Koran 5:34).

“for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (Koran 22:19-22)

The Muslims try to justify their acts of terrorism by saying that God, who they refer to as Allah, is really the one doing the killing and using Muslims as tools to carry out death and destruction.

"It is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself." (Koran 8:17; cp. Surah Al-Baqarah 2:190)

Allah "will punish them by our hands..." (Koran 9:14).

The Muslims claim that Jihad is mandatory.

“Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (Koran 9:38-39).

“Believers, when you encounter the armies of the infidels do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons, or to join another band he shall incur the wrath of Allah and Hell shall be his home: an evil fate." (Koran 8:12-17)

It is acceptable to break treaties and obligations with pagans and make war on them whenever strong enough to do so (Koran 9:3).

In other words, it is ok to lie to an infidel, according to Islam. That means it is a so-called religion, based on lies.

This is why treaties and agreements with Muslims are meaningless.

At November 13, 2005 6:21 PM, Blogger Don Miguel said...

"what is being done here and there from explosions, murder, plane crashings, suicide bombing and many more is nothing more the muslims themselves would say terrirism acts."

Right. That's why there is a plethora of fatwas from Muslim religious authorities after every terrorist act committed by Muslims.

"the islamic religion never and will never support such acts, by whatever means, islam is a religion of peace, and those who use the word jihad are but ignorant foolish people who would use the religion to do their evil biddings which is terrorising."

Right. Islam has a distinguished history as a "religion of peace." You probably believe that all of those countries that are now Muslim were converted in a peaceful manner.

It's funny how those "ignorant foolish people" seem to be able to justify their acts by referencing the Koran and Hadiths while there is such a groundswell of Muslims contradicting their use.

You should check out MEMRI and actually listen to all of the “peace” emanating from the Muslim world.


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