Tuesday, August 23, 2005

Europe and Appeasement

Ali Sina comments the article "Europe, Thy Name is Cowardice". I don't think an Islamic Europe is unavoidable, yet. But war probably is. And with a few more years of this cowardice, a world war may become unavoidable, too:

A Comment on Mathis Drofner's Essay

The point that Dopfner raises is not about the past but about the present. He is saying that Europe would be committing a grave mistake if instead of fighting against Islam, she tries to appease the Islamists. Islam must be confronted forcefully and rejected completely. It is nothing but insanity to recognize a doctrine that calls you impure, idolater and even pig and orders its follower to slay you as a legitimate religion. Recognizing Islam is accepting your own death warrant. Muhammad said kill the unbelievers. You are an unbeliever. If you recognize Islam, you are agreeing to be killed. Isn't that stupid?

Muslims in Europe have gained too much power. The more Muslims become powerful the weaker Europe becomes. Europeans must realize that Islam is not just another religion in their multi cultural religious rainbow but rather is their enemy. Islam aims to destroy their culture, their democracy and take away their freedom. They must realize that Muslims are not going to integrate in their countries but rather want to swallow them. If the Europeans do not wake up soon and do not start deporting the Islamists en masse and denouncing Islam as their enemy, they will be annihilated sooner than they can think.

The threat of Islam today, is much greater than the threat of Nazism during the 1930s. Failure to address this threat will result in a war more devastating than the Second World War. Iranian communists who repeatedly betrayed Iranians, have sought refuge in the West to escape Islamic terrorism in Iran and now, true to their treacherous nature, they are supporting Islamic terrorism in Iraq and oppose the West. These people are not for peace. They want anarchy. They want mayhem and chaos. Only through disorder they hope to seize the power. The enmity of the leftists against democracy and Western values is so intense that they choose to side with Islamic terrorists and back up suicide bombings and beheading civilians to prevent democracy take root in Iraq. They are afraid of democracy like cockroaches from light. America is the bastion of democracy and the leftists can’t stand it. Europe is tilting towards the left and in her gritty antagonism to America, she is flirting with Islamism. Europe is in great danger and will pay a huge price for her support of Islam. There is only one way to describe the Europeans' appeasement of Muslims and that is “suicidal”.


At August 23, 2005 10:12 PM, Blogger Jude the Obscure said...

Off topic slightly, but could anyone tell me why non-Islamists (Christians) are referred to as 'infidels'? My dictionary defines 'infidel' as 'an adherent of religion opposed to Christianity, esp. Muslim'. It is a Latin root word, not Arabic and was used by the Crusaders. Are Jews referred to as infidels as well? Why has this word been hijacked by Islamists, and why have they been let to do it?

At August 23, 2005 11:15 PM, Blogger PD111 said...

Fjordman: And with a few more years of this cowardice, a world war may become unavoidable, too

Sixty years is a long time for Europe not to have a war. Almost unnatural. Though in this war that islam is thrusting on us, we will be fighting a neanderthal mindset, equipped with modern weapons. It will be for a principle, that we thought we had already fought for, and won.

I have dreaded this coming new war in Europe for many years, which in the way of things, will be a world war. It is a quite unnecessary war, and will lead to casualties that will be an order of magnitude higher then the last world war. I would much rather, that muslims just followed their own precepts and live in dar ul islam, as required by their law.

But if there is to be a war, then as in the way of all wars, it will wipe out all the detritus of PC, multiculteralism and other "isms" that have hobbled our society over the last two decades. Sad to say, but war tends to clear out the rubbish, and brings forth the essential defining characteristics.

At August 23, 2005 11:42 PM, Blogger ThBadMonkey said...

Oh well, when it happens it happens...

It looks like they will just keep doing what they are doing,(blowing poeple up) until they are all kicked out (?), and the liberals are jailed for supporting them,and suppressing natives.

Meanwhile, China laughs....

At August 23, 2005 11:46 PM, Blogger Fjordman said...

war tends to clear out the rubbish, and brings forth the essential defining characteristics.

But what are Europe's essential defining characteristics? Liberal democracy, or Fascism and ruthless nationalism? Post-war Europe could become more religious, and at best return to a stronger Western path alongside the USA. But the war could also exhaust Europe's remaining energy, leaving Americans and Asians to move on while Europeans descend into brutal tribalism. Could we see a revival of Eastern Europe as opposed to Western Europe? I really don't know.

China would probably laugh, yes. But on the other hand, the global economy is stil dependent upon the West. China's growth, and maybe even the country itself, could implode because of the turbulence.

At August 24, 2005 12:52 AM, Blogger sissyblue said...


The koran refers to Christians and Jews as "people of the book", and all others (ie aetheists, Hindus, Budhists, etc) as "infidels". I'm not a linguist, but I'm assuming "pagan" would have filled the blank equally well.

Infidels are hated, and it is considered quite normal by the Koran to offer conversion to Islam, or beheading. The Infidels choice of course.

If they're using the term "infidels" to refer to Christians, it's not a Koran thing. Maybe it's a muslim slang thing, or maybe they're not reading the Koran anymore.

At August 24, 2005 12:59 AM, Blogger Ole said...

From Merriam Webster:
1 : one who is not a Christian or who opposes Christianity
2 a : an unbeliever with respect to a particular religion b : one who acknowledges no religious belief
3 : a disbeliever in something specified or understood

At August 24, 2005 1:16 AM, Blogger sissyblue said...

Off-subject: Do you all get a lot of data miners when you surf the blogs?

At August 24, 2005 1:20 AM, Blogger erp said...

Question to Europeans. Do you have the stomach for the fight against the takeover of your countries by Islam? It needn't be a physical fight, but it must be fierce and must be soon.

Muslims must be forced to obey your laws or take the consequences of going to jail or being exiled.

No more nonsense of allowing Muslims to adjudicate in their own enclaves.

At August 24, 2005 2:19 AM, Blogger PD111 said...


Interesting questions.

1. What would be fighting for

I suppose a way of life. VFR calls it "traditional" values, as opposed to "conservative" vales.

2. As this will be a world war, it is unlikely any but the most remote island cultures will remain unaffected. China and India, will both be affected in a major way. Both are likely to be allies, though unreliable to an extent.

3. Is tribalism possible? Perhaps. Though that is more or less equivalent to racism. However, as the war with islamists will be ideological, that in itself will define the context of the war. The war itself will be global, and that precludes a descent to tribalism.

I'm confident that we will find a way. The democracies are particularly adept in finding the right path, as they are confident in their value systems, not to be tied to any particular dogma. This last attribute ie being tied to a dogma, has consistently led to the defeat of totalitarian dogmas by the democracies. Dogma is by nature, unable to adapt to changing circumstances. For Islam so far, this has been its strong point, but it is also its weakness. In fact, it is dogmatic even by Nazi and communist standards. Islam will be no different; it will go the way of all totalitarian and authorotarian ideologies.

I'm optimistic.

At August 24, 2005 2:47 AM, Blogger sissyblue said...


China and India allies? You must be kidding. I think China and the Islamists will be allies. China wants oil and hates the west. I think India will be allies with the west, for no other reason than recognizing they have the same problem (Islam in their midst who want them dead).

Since Russia is looking more and more like it's morphing into a dictatorship again, they may side with China (see their military games together this week?).

I think the only chance for Europe is fast action. If they wait too long, the muslims multiply like rabbits, and they'll be out-numbered. Although I heard somewhere, maybe here, that Castro took over Cuba with relatively few people.

At August 24, 2005 2:57 AM, Blogger PD111 said...


It is unlikely that China will side with the islamists, for two reasons I can think of

1. The Chinese are a pragmnatic people. They are unlikely, to say the least, to side with the losers.

2. China has a growing muslim problem. So does Russia.

I say unreliable for the reason, that though India and China are likely to be our allies, both are going to have their own post-war agenda. This is unlikely to be the same as those of Europe or the US. In fact, even Europe and US will take different paths, once the war is over, and this will affect even their wartime alliance. All major nations are unreliable bedfellows, even when they have common goals.

At August 24, 2005 7:25 AM, Blogger RobertinArabia said...

It was not a sensible policy to invite millions of predominantly Moslem immigrants into Europe without open debates about the effects this might have. Worse still was for many countries to follow the United States and the United Kingdom into a war of aggression against Iraq and one-sided support of the Zionist enterprise - thus provoking massive disaffection amoung Moslems already in Europe.
Too many good Europeans have already been arrested, fined, and ostracized and assassinated to the general praise of the supporters of "hate crime" laws and the censorship of the "pensee unique". You did not listen to Enoch Powell, or Respail, or Faye or Le Pen when you had a chance. Now you face war or annihilation.

At August 24, 2005 8:09 AM, Blogger Fjordman said...

These spammers are busy today.....

At August 24, 2005 8:37 AM, Blogger Fjordman said...

DP111: Yes, I am optimistic about the outcome. Islam cannot win this. But the price will be high. First of all in the Middle East, then in Europe and India, and then everywhere else.

The USA would still be no. 1 in the post-war world. As we've discussed several times before, the interesting question is who will be no. 2, 3 or 4 ? I find this hard to predict. This struggle could invigorate Europe again, or it could break it completely, leaving the road open for Asian countries China and/or India to overtake it. China could potentially benefit from being less directly affected by the fighting than Europe, India and North America, or it could get huge internal problems in the aftermath. Russia could disintegrate.

And what will happen to non-Muslim immigrants in Europe?

At August 24, 2005 10:24 AM, Blogger Jude the Obscure said...

My sweeping predictions:
Post-war Europe will be more religious. Non-Muslim immigrants will have to accept the EU state religion. (Article 52 of the EU Constitution).
India will re-take control of Pakistan and Bangladesh.
China will take control of Thailand, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia. (Good rice growing countries).
Russia will ally itself with Europe. Bosnia will disappear back into Serbia.
America will take control of Alaska, Canada, South America and Greenland. Hey - you can fight them for it!
Turkey won't get into the EU. The Muslim world will be cut loose from Asia and the West.

At August 24, 2005 11:11 AM, Blogger Daffersd said...

Jude, use kafir or kufir instead, which is a real insult in Muslim speak. We are defined at the same level as stools, urine, pigs, dogs etc.

Fjordman, the unleasing of the racists is already happaning because decent people are having to turn to them, this is what happened with Nazi Germany, the only way to deal with the extreme left who were striking all the time was to vote in the extreme right.

My extreme annoyance with our so called leaders is that they are betraying those non-Muslim and innocent immigrants by their shameful inaction.

I agree, war is coming and it will be one that erupts across European cities and towns and villages and afterwards our economy will be destroyed, thank you Western leaders for destroying our civilisation by letting these barbarians in..., history will remember your names with shame, if they are remembered at all.

At August 24, 2005 2:18 PM, Blogger erp said...

In a variation of Golda's Meir's statement that peace in the Middle East will only come when Arabs love their children more than they hate Jews -- sanity will only return to Europe when Europeans love their children more than they fear being judgmental and politically incorrect.

It's timidity and fear of offending that's allowing the Islamic tail to wag the pacifist dog.

Time is getting short and some concerted action must taken and soon. The UK became galvanized only after dozens of their citizens were blown to bits. The Aussies have had their eyes opened and are taking strong steps to ensure their security, and even that paradise of perfect socialism, New Zealand, may be waking up.

Will it take bombs in Oslo or Paris before Europeans are similarly shaken out of their stupor?

At August 24, 2005 4:19 PM, Blogger Rick Darby said...

The best scenario I can envision is that the next Islamist-planned terror attack is deadly and spectacular but not catastrophic. Perhaps a few thousand more deaths and the destruction of some beloved building or monument.

Why is such a dreadful prospect "best"? Because it is the only event I can foresee that will (a) snap Europe and the few corrigible minds among the worldwide left out of the coma induced by thirty years of political correctness and multi-culti indoctrination; and (b) still leave enough people, strength and intact governmental structure to declare war on the enemy, beginning by deportation of first- and second-generation Muslim immigrants.

At August 24, 2005 7:17 PM, Blogger ThBadMonkey said...

Oslo just had a bomb go off the other day, but it was in his apartment?- So its ignored by the media of course...


Post a Comment

<< Home