Wednesday, May 04, 2005

Is Swedish Democracy Collapsing?

A top Muslim scholar said the Muslim minority in Sweden would abide by Swedish law in confronting a Christian preacher who insulted Prophet Muhammad, urging his fellow Swedish Muslims not to take the law into their own hands or commit any violent acts to avenge the remarks of the Christian cleric. Norwegian celebrity evangelist preacher Runar Søgaard, in a sermon at Filadelfia church in Stockholm on March 20, repeated claims that Muhammad was "a confused pedophile" since his wives included a girl aged nine years old. Søgaard is under protection by Swedish police after receiving death threats. The sermon has triggered fears of a religious war in Sweden. It is essential according to Islamic teachings to respond to those who defame Muhammad. Muslim extremists in Sweden have urged Al-Qaida's al-Zarqawi to take action in the matter, and radicals of the Salafyist variety have posted a very explicit threat to launch a wave of terrorist attacks against Sweden because of the "insult". The threats were posted on a number of known Islamist forums and were accompanied by rather lurid graphics.

However, Fjordman has documented that Swedish Muslims called for terror attacks against Sweden even before this incident happened. This text was posted on a large Swedish Muslim forum in February 2005: "Wallahi I pray that Allah will severely punish all those who are involved in this war against Islam. And that Sweden will feel the punishment of the Mujahdiin that the USA and Spain and other countries have done for their involvement in Iraq. May Allah punish this hypocrite government, Ameen. Please give me evidence that kuffar (infidels) should NOT be allowed to kill. Why should you not be allowed to call Sweden Darul Harb (the House of War)? Ulama have stated many times that every state that does not judge according to sharia, and does not have a pact with the Muslims or is paying the Jiziya is a part of Dar ul-Harb, which is allowed to attack and their wealth permitted for all Muslims. Why not follow the example of what our Mujahid brother in Holland did with that pig Theo van Gogh? That brother's action really made a difference in the world, and because of it the Muslims now enjoy some respect and eminence among the kuffar. Sure, Muslims enjoy "protection" in Sweden as citizens. So what? There are Muslims in the USA and Israel, too, getting "protection". What difference does it make? Allah made Jihad compulsory. A Muslim has to enter fully into Islam, not just ignore issues as he feels like. This is Islam, not a lunch buffet."

Muslims have been spreading extremism and hate in Sweden for some time. Journalist Salam Karam had on several occasions visited the large mosque on Medborgarplatsen in Stockholm. The aim was to compare the Imam's speeches in Arabic with the interpreters Swedish translations. His report showed that the violent attacks against USA and the West were never translated. The largest mosque in Stockholm was spreading double messages. What the Imam said in his speech in Arabic didn't match how the text was interpreted in Swedish. “America rapes Islam,” the Imam roared in Arabic from the platform. The interpreter translated to Swedish: “We condemn USA's torture of Iraqi prisoners.” Adding to sermons such as these, Radio Islam, based in Sweden, keeps Nazi hate literature such as Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" online in several languages, including English. Should a terror attack occur in Sweden, the country may be unprepared for it. An examination of Sweden's preparedness for a terrorist attack by the Swedish Defense Research Agency, FOI, has found the country’s state agencies lacking.

The threats against Sweden should serve as a lesson to those who still claim that Islamic terrorism is caused by "Israeli aggression" or "American foreign policy". Sweden, a retirement home for foreign war criminals and reputedly where Iraqi ex-dictator Saddam Hussein wants to spend his last years, doesn't have a colonial past. Yet it is probably the most pathetic dhimmi nation in the Western world, even if facing some stiff competition for the title. It subsidizes Palestinian terror conferences at a time when anti-Jewish harassment by Muslims is so bad that Swedish Jews sign up for service in the IDF to escape. IKEA, one of its largest companies, censors its own manuals in order not to offend Muslims. A Swedish court recently judged according to sharia. I have earlier read suggestions by a columnist in Sweden's largest newspaper, Aftonbladet, that Sweden should change its national anthem into "something multicultural". Two Swedish girls were also sent home from school for wearing sweaters showing a tiny Swedish flag. The headmaster was concerned that this might be deemed offensive by some immigrants. Sweden crawls to Muslims in every way imaginable, and it still isn't enough. There are still Muslim radicals who want to attack it. How are leftists going to spin it when the terror attacks come? Since Islamic terror is caused by occupation and oppression, which illegal settlements are Swedes going to withdraw from to please the Muslims? Stockholm? They've already de facto withdrawn from Malmö.

Few areas in Sweden are worse hit by the current troubles than Malmö, the nation's third largest city. According to some estimates, the rapidly growing Muslim immigrant population may turn Malmö into a Muslim majority city within about ten years. It will be the first major Scandinavian city to enjoy this honor, although perhaps not the last. Native Swedes are leaving the city in droves, as crime is rampant and the police publicly admit they don't control all parts of the city. There are now gangs in Malmö specialized in assaulting old people visiting the graves of relatives. Robberies have increased with 50 % in Malmö only during the fall of 2004. The city is descending into general chaos. Fights in the city's movie theatres have become a recurrent problem. Numbers released in January 2005 indicate a sharp rise in the number of rape charges in Malmö. Thomas Anderberg, responsible for statistics at the Malmö Police, says there was a doubling of the number of reported rapes by ambush in 2004, following what was already a decade of steadily increasing numbers of sexual crimes. "I think that’s great news," says Anna Gustafsson, head of the Domestic Violence Unit at the Malmö Police. She suggests that the increase is due to the fact that women who otherwise wouldn’t press charges for rape now choose to contact the police. In other words, Gustafsson claims that we are dealing with a “technical” increase, not a real one. However, national statistics reveal that reported rapes against children have almost doubled in Sweden during the past ten years. The number of rape charges per capita in Malmö is 5 – 6 times that of Copenhagen, Denmark. Copenhagen is a larger city, but the percentage of immigrants is much lower.

Malmö has recently taken another logical step towards its Islamization: Starting from the fall of 2005, the district of Hyllie will begin education in Arabic only for groups of immigrant preschool children. The idea is that once the children learn the language of their parents, it will become easier for them to learn Swedish as well. So the Swedish state paying for educating Swedish citizens on Swedish ground in Arabic is somehow supposed to increase integration. On the other hand, perhaps being good dhimmis and teaching in Arabic can stop one of the latest fads in Sweden: Burning schools. At least 139 schools in Sweden suffered arson attacks during 2002 alone. Such as a recent incident in Malmö, where three schools were put on fire during one night. "Teenage boys" are suspected to behind the arson. Björn Vinberg from the fire department in Kroksbäck in the Malmö area says it's humiliating and degrading to put out fires again and again in the same immigrant areas, with school kids laughing at them and lighting a new one just afterwards. His colleagues have been to the same place no less than twenty times, all totally unnecessary.

While Malmö may be an especially appalling example, instability is spreading to most of Sweden's urban and suburban areas, and now permeates all levels of society. Street violence of all kinds is soaring on a national level. Private security companies are in great demand in major Swedish cities, as a serious lack of police to combat rising crime has made many citizens tired of being robbed. Amnesty International concluded that acts of violence against women had spiralled upward in Sweden in the last 15 years, a jump that could not be explained away as merely a greater willingness by women to report the incidents. A large majority of Swedish Members of Parliament, but even many politicians on lower and local levels, say they experience threats or violence. Many of them say the harassment is so bad they consider leaving politics.

In Husby, a Stockholm suburb, gangs of immigrant youngsters are harassing other visitors who come to use the swimming pool. A Swedish school class was attacked and robbed by a large group of teenage boys shouting "Swedish bastards! (Svennejävlar) You don't belong here!" The police in Husby are aware of the problem, but say it is an integration problem that the police can't solve alone. In another case, some twenty youths armed with iron rods and chains smashed the Hjulsta school in Stockholm. They also threatened and attacked several of the pupils. Neither the students nor the teachers dare testify to the police about the incident. Their fears are well-founded, as threats against witnesses in Swedish court cases have quadrupled between 2000 and 2003.

Sweden, only a few decades ago an extremely homogeneous society, has had more immigration during the past years than almost any other Western nation. Two out of three new Swedes are actually immigrants. While political parties in neighboring Denmark quarrel over whether to roll back immigration even further, there is virtually no public debate in Sweden. This despite the fact that Sweden granted 24,553 residence permits under family reunification last year, compared to Denmark's 4791. Danish politicians have justified strict laws as a bid to prevent arranged marriages, or matches coerced by immigrant parents to placate families in the home country. Denmark has also passed a resolution stating that family reunification applications by young people should be rejected if the couple's parents entered an arranged marriage themselves. Sweden's politicians view arranged marriages as a positive tradition: a cultural pattern that immigrants should be allowed to preserve even in Sweden. The Swedish government feels that interfering in arranged marriages is an encroachment upon private life. In addition, immigrant couples can apply for family reunification in Sweden even if they've never seen each other before. The nation's liberal reunification laws have led to almost double the number of immigrants in Sweden as in Denmark.

This massive, uncontrolled immigration is starting to take its toll. The number of ghettos, a phenomenon that until recently was unheard of in wealthy and egalitarian Scandinavian nations, has been increasing explosively. 14 years ago, there were only 3 such areas in all of Sweden. Today, there are 136. Stockholm politician Annika Billström warns against the dangers of creating ghettos in Sweden. Rock throwing and attacks against buses and trains are increasing problems in some suburbs. In Malmö the bus lines in the area of Rosengård have been cancelled. In Stockholm, the authorities went even further and stopped both the bus traffic in the Tensta suburb and the train to Nynäshamn. Head of the bus company in the city of Uppsala, Claes-Göran Alm, is considering doing the same, as the harassment is costing too much money and is putting their employees at risk. Benny Persson is selling window glass in the areas south of Stockholm. According to him, they sometimes have to jump into the car and leave the spot, as they are met with the harassment that some of the bus companies in the suburbs are experiencing: Stone throwing and threats. The same thing is reported from Gothenburg, Sweden’s second largest city. The company Hemglass are now attempting to run double crews in their cars to face the problems, but they still have had to completely abandon an area outside Södertälje. If you get stuck in an elevator outside Stockholm, you risk staying there for a long time. The repair personnel now demand security guards present when they arrive, since several of their employees have been physically attacked. The most serious problem, however, is the delay of ambulances and the fire department. According to the Emergency Central, attacks against them have become commonplace in the cities. Every Saturday, at least five to ten times emergency personnel are asking for police escort to be able to do their job. The segregation in the worst hit areas of Sweden has not been broken, despite many attempts. This according to a new study that has followed about 270 000 persons that have lived in 20 of the worst hit areas of the Stockholm region. Researchers Roger Andersson and Åsa Bråmå have followed all the 270 000 persons during the 1990s. These areas have received billions from different funds designed to prevent segregation. But the percentage of persons with non-Swedish ethnic background has increased from 57 to 73 during this period.

How can all of this be allowed to unfold in a seemingly civilized country? Jonathan Friedman is a New York Jew now living with his Swedish wife in the southern Swedish city of Malmø where he teaches socio-anthropology at the University of Lund. As an outsider he is able to comment candidly on issues which native Swedes would be quite unable to for fear of retribution for overstepping the invisible PC bounds. "No debate about immigration polices is possible, the subject is simply avoided. Sweden has such a close connection between the various powerful groups, politicians, journalists, etc. The political class is closed, isolated. And add to that, that the Social Democrats have had something like near monopoly on the power. The elite, in their isolation and due to their isolation, has become more and more scared of the people and what they might think and believe. Jonathan Friedman thinks circumstances in Sweden are special also because Sweden has a long tradition of maintaining a correct surface. "Bergman's movies weren't about anything else. It was all about demons hiding under the dry and correct surface. The Swedish supreme court has in a ruling in principle made clear the fact that racism is something which is done by Swedes and not anyone else. This despite many of the gang rapes, wherein by the way immigrants are massively overrepresented as perpetrators, have clear racist traits. But this they don't want to know, and this we are not allowed to know." "Sweden has lots of conflicts and a rising insecurity. We have witnessed several incidents of what I would call classical racist nature, wherein two groups of people violently clash. Crime is going up. The newly arrived are largely unemployed, and this costs the welfare state much money. The welfare state is based on a closed system, it can handle a limited group of people. It can't in any way deal with an open society, but this kind of insight is too much for politicians in general. When voting in Sweden you pick your voting card from the political representatives outside the voting booths, and then walk across the hall to the voting booth and select which candidate you want to vote for - only there inside the booth where you select the party candidate are you hidden from view. This means everybody can see which party you are going to vote for, and in a society like Sweden where social control is very widespread this creates an atmosphere where certain political parties are heavily discriminated against.

Norwegian journalist and member of Human Rights Service Hege Storhaug puts it this way: "Is Swedish culture worth keeping?" I put this question to Lise Bergh, the Swedish government representative of immigration policies, on the Nordic conference on immigration in Stavanger [Norwegian city] April 7th. "What is Swedish culture? And then I suppose I have answered the question" answered Berg without trying to conceal her cultural-self disparagement in either words or facial expressions. As you make your bed so you lie [what goes around comes around] as they say. In Sweden, the leadership seems to show Europe's most extensive cultural self-denial, or rather -- a deeply felt self loathing, which many feel is the perfect recipe for driving a peaceful nation to destruction. My question to Lise Bergh was far from randomly formulated. Half a year ago, from a pulpit in a Mosque belonging to the Kurdish Organisation, and "respectfully" veiled, the former minister for integration. Mona Sahlin, said that many Swedes are envious of the immigrants because they, unlike the Swedes, have a culture, a history, something which ties them together. The Swedes only have some foolish anniversaries and such folly. As the former Danish minister for integration, Karen Jespersen, commented: "Cultural self-denial hardly gets any more disgusting or scary"

During the second half of the 20th century Sweden used to be called "the middle way". This meant something between capitalism and communism, a controlled market economy, a welfare state with social security for all its citizens. It also stood for certain values, like democracy, peace and solidarity. Now there is no more of that. All of its neighbours are in a better position than Sweden. They have stronger economies, a higher standard of living, better social security and less crime. This includes Finland, a country that was devastated by war. Sweden today is still remarkable - though in quite a different way. Today Sweden might rather be called "the extreme way". In both Scandinavian neighbouring countries there are big opposition parties, but none in Sweden. How come? Norway has Fremskrittspartiet, headed by Carl I Hagen. Denmark has Dansk Folkeparti, headed by Pia Kjersgaard. Both have quite a few seats in their respective Parliament. In the Swedish Parliament there is no such party. Still Sweden has had, all through the 90's, roughly twice as much immigration - even per capita - as Norway or Denmark. Consequently problems connected with this immigration have shown up in Sweden to no less an extent than in Denmark and Norway. Today, out of a population of 9 million people, about 1 million are born outside Sweden. This constitutes 11% of the population. If we also include their children born in Sweden, the figure rises to nearly 20%. This goes for the country as a whole. As the immigrants tend to concentrate in some areas, like Stockholm and Malmö, the percentage in those areas is considerably higher. Added to this is the fact that fertility is high among new immigrants. The effect of all this is that in some schools and in many classes native Swedes are in a minority. There are even cases where almost all the children have foreign background. Swedes are now in many ways treated as second-class citizens in their own country. The very word "Swede" has been given a negative connotation. This kind of project has now been introduced all over Western Europe. Sweden is still a special case. In no other country has it gone that far. One factor may be Swedish mentality, connected with a long period of peace and welfare. This has bred an urge to be good and at the same time a notion of being able to achieve anything. Part of the Swedish mentality is also an unwillingness for conflicts, we rather step aside.

An important part of the explanation is the role of mass media in Sweden. Not a single TV-program, radio program or big newspaper would give space to critics of the multicultural project. "Sverigedemokraterna" - a party outside the Parliament - can seldom hold meetings without being hassled by political hooligans, who make noise, destroy equipment or even resort to violence. There are no reactions to this in mass media, nor from the police. As Helle "Hamas" Klein, political editor of Sweden's largest newspaper Aftonbladet, boasts: "If the debate is going to be about whether there are problems with immigrants, we don't want it". Welcome to Sweden, the country where the media doesn’t even pretend to champion freedom of speech, but openly brags about censorship. At the same time, leading media figures could even voice sympathy for the terrorists who slaughtered at least 150 innocent children in Beslan. Hans Bergström, former editor-in-chief of Swedish newspaper Dagens Nyheter, worries that Sweden has become "a one-party state". An examination of the selection of books bought to Swedish libraries showed that literature with a leftist perspective outnumbered books with a conservative or right-wing perspective four to one. The Nyköping branch of the Swedish National Labour Market Administration, the catchy English designation for the dreaded job centre, decided it would get its job-seekers out of the house for a while. Using an old trick beloved of authoritarian states such as Cuba, the Administration told unemployed construction workers that if they did not attend a demonstration in favour of collective agreements, it would assume they were in gainful employment and their benefits would be duly withdrawn. "Attendance at the meeting is compulsory. If you do not attend, I will take it for granted that you are fully occupied and no longer seeking employment through the Labour Market Administration. You will be removed from the unemployment register and your unemployment benefits will cease."

How does the Swedish political elite respond to their largest cities breaking down? By pretending there is no problem. The media elite shares the same contempt for and fear of the common people, and has largely played along. Some Swedes have compared Swedish media to Pravda in the old Soviet Union. Cracks are beginning to emerge, though. This article in the newspaper Expressen about Prime Minister Göran Persson's visit to Malmö during May Day is brimming with sarcasm, presenting him as a modern Swedish version of clueless Marie Antoinette:

Swedish Prime Minister Göran Persson, surrounded by a dozen body guards, took part in the May Day demonstrations in the city of Malmö. "It is a splendid celebration, a manifestation of freedom and security", Persson says. Meanwhile, a couple of blocks from there, a handicapped man is beaten to the ground by a group of thugs. The victim was about to demonstrate under the slogan "Welfare is most important". Now he is kicked in the face and the chest. When two of the assailants are finally taken into police custody, the man is terrified and suffering from severe pains. "This is one of Sweden's finest meeting places," says the Prime Minister as he enters the platform after listening to Socialist anthem The Internationale. "In a Malmö I love. Sweden's face to the world." Persson doesn't notice that the police are taking action against a neo-Nazi counterdemonstration nearby. "Open to the winds of the world lies my fair country," says Persson. "There is no greater freedom than security. A society with clean air, clean water and safe people, open to the world.". It's 3.3o pm and a police patrol is cutting down a doll resembling a politician being hanged, carrying a photo of Malmö's Mayor Ilmar Reepalu. The Prime Minister has just promised improved dental care for young people, and concludes: "Look up! The fabulous fact is that the sun is breaking through." The police and the fire department get an alarm. The Örtagård school in Rosengård, an area of Malmö with close to 100 % Muslim immigrants, is burning yet again. Several police patrols are called out. But Prime Minister Persson has already been escorted by special security police into his bulletproof Volvo, on his way back to the Cabinet's private jet and out of Malmö.

Rumor has it that Socialist PM Göran Persson is pondering a premature exit, at a time when his Social Democratic party is struggling on the opinion polls ahead of the national elections in 2006. Likely successor and thus potential PM may be senior member of Cabinet Mona Sahlin. She is known for gems of wisdom like this one: "A concerted effort that aims at educating Swedes that immigrants are a blessing to their country must be pursued, said Sahlin, stressing that her compatriots must accept that the new Sweden is multi-cultural, and that discrimination must end. "Like it or not, this is the new Sweden".

Only a couple of generations ago, Sweden was talked about with respect, and the "Swedish model" referred to as an example to follow by other countries. Some of this may have been an illusion. A significant number of the problems we are witnessing now have their roots in the ideology of the all-encompassing state, the generous welfare system and the long period of Socialist dominance that has crippled a genuine political debate. Education teaches people to respect the consensus, and not sabotage it. As Roland Huntford demonstrated in the book The New Totalitarians, Sweden is a "peaceful utopia" totally controlled by a bureaucracy which actively discourages all signs of individuality and dissent. Sweden hasn't been involved in war since Napoleonic times. It managed to stay out of both world wars, was neutral during the cold war and has never experienced invasion or occupation in modern history. In short, there are few if any Western nations less suited intellectually to deal with the Islamic challenge than Sweden. It shows.

Sweden is already a banana republic, perhaps on its way to becoming an Islamic republic. Swedish culture is disappearing with astonishing speed in front of our eyes. If the trend isn't stopped, the Swedish nation will simply cease to exist in any meaningful way during the first half of this century. The country that gave us Bergman, ABBA and Volvo could become known as the Bosnia of northern Europe. The "Swedish model" will no longer refer to a stable and peaceful state with an advanced economy, but an Eurabian horror story of utopian multiculturalism, Socialist mismanagement and runaway immigration. Sweden has national elections in 2006. This will be one of the last opportunities the country has to resolve its towering internal tensions in peaceful and civilized ways. Some fear it's already too late.

99 Comments:

At May 04, 2005 6:34 PM, Blogger chaoticsynapticactivity said...

You have done some excellent reporting....Thank your for carrying the torch of truth, and pointing out how the appeasers aren't going to be be safe, either.

I hope it doesn't get bloodier than it already has, yet I fear it will.

 
At May 04, 2005 7:33 PM, Blogger Baron Bodissey said...

Mr. fjordman, you really hit the jackpot with this one. I can see that Rune was only reporting the tip of the iceberg.

 
At May 04, 2005 7:49 PM, Anonymous A Swede said...

I'm old enough to have witnessed the whole 'development'.

I fear that you're spot on. This is really depressing...

 
At May 04, 2005 9:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Native Swedes are all welcome in the United States, and their personal experiences with the Muslim Menace can only enlighten and alert Americans to the true danger that Islam presents.

It's my view that Sweden will soon fall into anarchy and civil war.

The ship is sinking due to dhimmitude and will soon be gone.

I grieve for Sweden!

 
At May 04, 2005 9:34 PM, Blogger the adventuress said...

Neither Swedes nor any other Europeans are welcome in the US if they intend to bring with them the same failed multi-culti and socialist ideas that got them into this pickle in the first place.

Only fighters and survivors are welcome to our shores.

 
At May 04, 2005 9:36 PM, Blogger Don Miguel said...

Sweden is committing suicide.

I agree with what anonymous said:

"Native Swedes are all welcome in the United States, and their personal experiences with the Muslim Menace can only enlighten and alert Americans to the true danger that Islam presents."

 
At May 04, 2005 9:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What compels Swedes to cling to a PC/Pravda view of the world? Is it a 60's/70's generation thing? Are the younger Swedes different? Where is the drunken honesty?

 
At May 04, 2005 10:51 PM, Blogger M.Tofangdar said...

http://kogoulcanyon.blogspot.com

 
At May 04, 2005 11:39 PM, Blogger Rune said...

Funny you should mention it. Here is what Friedman has to say about drunken honesty:

"Weekend racists", is Friedman's term for many Swedes, whom drink themselves senseless during the weekend, whence it is generally accepted to - and then all the suppressed hatred is let loose. He mentions a leading politician whom daily spoke warmly for greater immigration and integration, but who simply had to be thrown out of Grand Hotel one Saturday evening because he shouted and screamed his racist opinions for the world to hear. While being drunk. Racism while under the influence of alcohol.”

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2005/04/dream-falls-apart.html

Swedes like to call each other and everybody within shouting distance racist, fascist and Nazi on every possible occasion, but for all their PC grandstanding, Swedes are by all accounts generally more racist that any of their neighbouring countries – and few so racist as the immigrants themselves whom often have but the deepest contempt for the people who in their naivety let them in. Such is human nature. Naivety is repaid with theft, weakness with contempt.

 
At May 04, 2005 11:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Irene Adler is dead wrong.

Albert Einstein would think so too.

America needs the Sweedish experience to help us arm against this Islamic Menace!

 
At May 04, 2005 11:53 PM, Anonymous witchywoman said...

Have been reading this blog for a while and it has been a real eye-opener about the problems of europe due to the jihad by islam. The US is so huge that much of what happens overseas east or west is not reported in the media and I have to go to the web. Thank god for the web and thank god for the Fjordman. Please guys, don't go into permanent depression or give up. Not now!

 
At May 05, 2005 12:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thank God everyday that my grandfather had the courage as a young man to leave Sweden for the United States. Soon Sweden will only be a nostalgia item.

 
At May 05, 2005 1:42 AM, Blogger the adventuress said...

anonymous:

Read what I wrote again: Swedes and other Europeans who are willing to help fight the Islamic Jihad are welcome in the US; it's the ones who would vote for the same policies/politicians that ruined their own countries who are not welcome here.

 
At May 05, 2005 1:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This has got to be one of the worst researched articles I've ever read. The whole thing is filled with mindless hatred for muslims and no references to facts. Aftonbladet is a fucking tabloid for crying out loud.

Thanks for the laugh though. You should send it to The Onion ;)

 
At May 05, 2005 2:47 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Irene Adler:

I stand corrected.
Please accept my appology!

 
At May 05, 2005 2:59 AM, Blogger Rational Islamophobe said...

Excellent article, fjordman. I had best start reading you regularly and add you to my blogroll.

We must win this fight.

 
At May 05, 2005 3:50 AM, Anonymous first generation American said...

Fjordman, thank you for providing this compilation - the frightening reality the msm refuses to print. Well done!

 
At May 05, 2005 4:08 AM, Blogger Thomas the Wraith said...

Excellent job. Keep up the good work. Maybe it will take the utter collapse of Sweden to force the rest of Western Europe to face the Islamist threat and take the necessary actions.

 
At May 05, 2005 5:11 AM, Blogger felix said...

The usual depressing stuff. I guess there aren't any politcians in Sweeden who think it is worth standing up for Sweeden. At least Holland has Hirsi Ali and Geert Wilders.

 
At May 05, 2005 7:21 AM, Blogger Fjordman said...

Felix: "At least Holland has Hirsi Ali and Geert Wilders."

That's what I notice, too. All other countries have at least some kind of political resistance. Sweden has almost nothing, which makes it one of the most dangerous countries in Europe right now.

 
At May 05, 2005 7:28 AM, Blogger simulev said...

Why are you callling Swedish third city for Malmo? Let's do the Jihad thing and rename it into Palestine. As we all know all elite Swedish politicans supports and endorses such arabist projects.

A depressing read Fjordman. But what else to expect from a nation where Radio Islam founder Ahmed Rami enjoys govermental approved santuary with a protected identity.

 
At May 05, 2005 7:31 AM, Blogger Fjordman said...

Simulev: I'd like to know more about Radio Islam, actually. I just know they are hosted in Sweden and have "Mein Kampf" etc. online in many languages.

 
At May 05, 2005 8:07 AM, Blogger Fjordman said...

"This has got to be one of the worst researched articles I've ever read. The whole thing is filled with mindless hatred for muslims and no references to facts. Aftonbladet is a fucking tabloid for crying out loud."

Aftonbladet probably underestimates the problems. I quoted Helle "Hamas" Klein in bragging about censorship regarding issues related to immigration. That goes for Swedish media in general. I just quoted some of the information that slips through the cracks.

 
At May 05, 2005 8:15 AM, Blogger simulev said...

Fjordman, Radio Islam (that today sadly are hosted in US based servers), poisoning the web as the mother of all anti-Jew sites on the Internet are founded by
Ahmed Rami. On “his” site you can read his own biography how plotted and fled his own country morocco and tricked himself into Sweden with fake passport, where he gained and was granted political asylum 1973. Once in Sweden, the establishments best friend. A majority of high profile leftist supported his “free speech” at the beginning. Then he finally (1989) was dragged into court and judged guilty on 18 points of the Swedish versions of hate speech (incitements against ethnics). For his crimes, he was sentenced six months in prison. Last year the state prosecutor dropped the charges, again since they could not prove that it was he who runs and updates the Internet site that bares his name and tales.

The founder of the Environment, supporters to current governing social democratic, party (or green communists) Gahrton who made it to EU parliament and now heads the Palestine Groups was his best friend and supporter back at the days.

 
At May 05, 2005 8:31 AM, Blogger Fjordman said...

Thanks, Simulev ;-)

 
At May 05, 2005 9:51 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a Swede I just can tell you all that this article is dead on target.
Unfortunally most of the Swedes has been brainwashed by the Government and the PC media so they cannot see the woods because all the trees standing in the way.
Those who sees the troubles coming with express speed are usually gagged by the laws and the choice between speaking up or to be quiet depends on if you are willing to spend some time behind bars.
Sooner or later the situation however will be so volatile that it will explode. As I have personal friends (non-Muslim) from the ME I worry about how to sort out these from the 5-columnists in our midst.
Do not forget that Sweden has more arms per capita than even the US exceeded only by Switzerland and that the feelings are boiling under the surface among the citizenry.
Although we are over the pension age one of my friends remarked as late as yesterday that we probably under our lifetime has to put on the uniform again, not to defend the government but to defend our inherited values from destruction and to save our lives.

 
At May 05, 2005 11:16 AM, Anonymous A Swede said...

To Anonymous May 05, 2005 1:56 AM,

Tabloid or not Aftonbladet is one of Sweden's most influential papers. Since decades the op-ed section has been filled with extreme-leftist propaganda. It is outspokenly anti-American, anti-Semitic and pro-terror (remember, Aftonbladet was pro-Nazi during WW2). Actually this section epitomizes the official "ideology" of Sweden.

Fjordman,

There're no essential differences between "Radio Islam" and the avant-garde of the Swedish establishment. Ahmed Rami says what they think (and that's the very reason they've supported him). Radio Islam is the nexus between Leftism, Nazism and Islam. Check the web site - it's huge...

 
At May 05, 2005 11:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blow the horns! Send in the Vikings! Reclaim your land!

And I always believed that the Swedish was a beautiful people.
They are not: they are weak and stupid (left).

Fjordman, keep on reporting, we need to know the truth.

 
At May 05, 2005 11:34 AM, Anonymous Marius, Oslo said...

Great article. I have read most of the material you refer to myself, but seeing it all compiled like this really gives the whole picture. Thank you again for collecting everything into such a great article. You will get a lot of traffic to your site out of that one...

 
At May 05, 2005 12:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most of us agree that Sweden and Europe in general do need immigrants from *somewhere* to prop up their tax base, but why do the immigration authorities allow Muslim Arabs to dominate the immigration stream so much?

Rather than allowing Arabs and Turks to predominate so extensively, why don't the authorities in, say, the Netherlands, France, Spain, and Germany focus on admitting more non-Muslim immigrants from East Asia (e.g. Korea, Taiwan, Philippines), Hindu and Christian regions in India, and South America? Or from Eastern Europe for that matter?

IMHO Sweden especially might benefit from providing incentives to increase the native birth rate, and encouraging educated people from the Baltic countries and Russia to come to Sweden and settle (especially if they have young families). Sweden needs more Latvians, Lithuanians, and Russians and fewer Turks and Moroccans. I hate to put it so starkly but that's the truth of the matter, and any authority in Sweden who trashes this idea or ignores it as being "racist" or some such is a damn fool.

This doesn't have to be a "pro-" vs. "anti-" immigration issue; the European immigrant authorities just have to use their heads more effectively in diversifying the immigrant stream and in inviting skilled workers from non-Muslim countries. Not rocket science here!!!

 
At May 05, 2005 4:37 PM, Anonymous John B said...

I blame it on ABBA!

On a more serious note - thanks Fjordman for a very good report. You've outdone yourself.

 
At May 05, 2005 5:30 PM, Anonymous TBH said...

I think for one we should get unemployment and tax level down, before we start about letting immigrants in like each and every one of them is going to start a business rather than live on social pay.

We shall let in immigrants as we need, and really need workforce, not to strangle our economies and fill up unemployment ranks.

We should never take any outside EU unless all of EU has unemployment down to 2 %.

...............................

But good article Fjordman, Sweden is really heading for trouble and not only that, is unwilling to face and do anything about it.

I don´t think the democracy will be under threat for decades - in 40-50 years, moslems have to get in, not all immigrants are moslems, not all moslems would like to wreck the democracy in Sweden, not all will be above 18 years.

But they will face ghetto and crime problems like noone else, and they will get screaming unemployment, and get a poorer, incoherent nation.

And in the long run if the government insist in their multicultural blindness, which I doubt they can for much longer, it is going to spell some trouble, neo nazis are gonna grow in numbers because they are the only ones organized to counter this.

Thomas Bolding Hansen

 
At May 05, 2005 6:05 PM, Blogger Runnymede1215 said...

As a swede I would basically agree with your view of the situation in Sweden, even though you might be painting an exaggerated picture of my country.


The chaos you are describing is not visible from within Sweden, but this can of course be explained by our very conformistic mainstream media, they certainly make successful efforts to hide the true picture from our dangerously naive and well meaning citizens.


The swedes are generally completely unaware of any problem, and even the "Sverigedemokraterna"-party is more of a xenophobic party than anti-islamist.


They seem to be seriously lacking in knowledge, or even interest about islam and the threat of islamization and dhimmitude. Not a party I would respect or take seriously. SD have a very strange, outdated and "eager to please everybody"-mix of socialism, isolationism, enviromentality, pompous nationalism, "kick the foreigners out"-mentality, and seem to be filled with uneducated people who are mainly concerned about saving unqualified jobs and overly generous social benefits for blond and blue eyed ethnic swedes from the working class.


With their uncharismatic leadership, nazi-roots and lack of intellectual interests they have failed completely so far, and will probably continue to do so, even though some swedes might consider giving them a "protest"-vote. There's an interesting article about the differences between the anti-multicultural parties in Scandinavia here.


Unfortunately there isn't a single real politician or media personality (symbiotic entities in Sweden) who seem willing to touch this issue, and I see no hope for any improvement in the near future.


I am a member of and debate a lot at FOMI (Forum Mot Islamisering) a politically independent non-racist forum against islamization) where we make an effort to make at least a few people aware of the situation.


I also have the blog Islamkritik with a few articles about islam, Muhammed and arguments against this dangerous religion and it's creator.


Thanks for your excellent blog Fjordman, I'll put this article, exaggerated or not, on the front page of FOMI

 
At May 05, 2005 7:18 PM, Anonymous Eirik said...

You have done a real service- now to get it out of the blogosphere and in front of our Norwegian politicians and msm.

 
At May 05, 2005 7:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a Dutchman: clearly, Sweden needs a Pim Fortuyn.

 
At May 05, 2005 8:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Most swedes dislike muslims but are afraid to speak their minds. One day it will be to much and we will fight. We are warriors at heart, we will prevail

 
At May 05, 2005 11:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What a mess! It is the same in The Netherlands here!

And the suggestion that you need a Pim Fortuyn is not correct, Fortuyn was killed. You need somebody like Fortuyn, but who at the same time, can stay a live!

Not sure if that is possible in Eurabia...

 
At May 06, 2005 12:27 AM, Blogger dennisw said...

well done fjordman! amazing!

 
At May 06, 2005 1:49 AM, Blogger thirdworldheaven said...

Unless Europe can tap into its barbaric energy, it is already a thing of the past. It will take violence to rid Europe of the Islamic plague. Good luck and God speed.

third

 
At May 06, 2005 2:04 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Perhaps what is needed is a program and then, maybe, the leadership will come along to promote the program. There is alot of problem description re the Islmafascists. The program I favor is to:

1. identify radical islamists--people who believe in violent jihad, having sharia law, etc.

2. taking those individuals into custody.

3. deporting those people back to their country of origin.

Deportation is not the death penalty, and it is not permanent intenment. They want to kill or convert us all, we just want to deport them.

 
At May 06, 2005 2:42 AM, Anonymous Novoguy. said...

Allow me to add my two cents.

I am an Australian. My wife is Swedish and her family lives outside Malmo. I am a frequent traveller to Sweden. Last year I travelled around Sweden and stayed in the bigger cities. Maybe I don't know where to go but I never felt threatened and there wasn't much overt antisocial activity. People were very civil.
Sweden a Banana Republic? Sweden's welfare state has smothered economic growth since 1970 but Sweden remains relatively wealthy and is far from a failed state.

That said, I fear that beautiful Sweden will become something a lot less attractive. Albania of the north? I hope not.

 
At May 06, 2005 3:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Read this book if you want to know way all this shit is happening.

http://www.dhimmi.org/

Compliments for your information about the situation in Sweden.

Greetings from Holland

 
At May 06, 2005 9:07 AM, Blogger Fjordman said...

"Sweden's welfare state has smothered economic growth since 1970 but Sweden remains relatively wealthy and is far from a failed state."

The welfare state is a flawed concept anyway, but this round if immigration has hit the Swedish one especially hard. I have heard claims that immigration costs Sweden 40 - 50 billion Swedish kroner a year. Notice my other post here about Denmark, where they also claim immigrants costs tens of billions of kroner. Swedish national debt has been growing fast, and Sweden has been declining even compared to Scandinavian neighbors.

Regarding crime, I think Malmø is the only city where it has spread to all of the city. In Stockholm and Gothenburg, it is still mostly confined to certain areas. But there is absolutely no doubt crime has been growing fast. Even national statistics show this, as I quote.

 
At May 06, 2005 11:04 AM, Anonymous MdK said...

It's seem like Sweden gets its share of problems with militants. Many of the problems and issues described in Fjordman's piece, are probably familiar for the Dutch, certainly for the Fortuynists. I was wondering however, as we can see a kind of countermovement (well the early beginning of it) against these anti-western militants on many of the Dutch forums and MSN-groups, is there a kind of countermovement among Muslims in Sweden?

The message of the Swedish militants is strikingly similar of that of the Dutch: jihad, jihad and again jihad. What to do after jihad? They don't know. When you look at the questions and needs of most young Muslims, you will see that these militants don't have an answer. They only have some kind of answer on some political issues. Their religious language therefore can not conceal that we are dealing with political militants and not religious militants per sé.

The connect gangraping and all that with Islam (muslims) is ridiculous (and nowhere is the proof in the article) but nevertheless very important for the image of muslims among non-muslims. It is also an example of what happens in the rest of the article of Fjordman. The anti-establishment message is connected with crime-issues, migration and (a lack of) swedish culture and identity. It looks somewhat like a pre-fortuyn era in Sweden and when someone like Fortuyn will show up there, he/she will probably be able to get a lot of votes.

Let's hope for the Swedes that they will realize in time that multiculturalism isn't the solution for the problems and that Fortuynesque politics isn't the solution either.

 
At May 06, 2005 11:26 AM, Blogger Fjordman said...

"The connect gangraping and all that with Islam (muslims) is ridiculous (and nowhere is the proof in the article)"

No, it's not. Police statistics from both Oslo, Norway, and Copenhagen, Denmark, confirm that immigrants are grossly overrepresented on rape statistics. And Malmø, Sweden, with the highest percentage of Muslims in Scandinavia, has 5 - 6 times as many rape charges per capita as Copenhagen. Muslim rapes of non-Muslim women happen not just in Scandinavia, but in many other Western nations, too. To say that this has nothing to do with Islam is nonsense. Muhammad himself and his companions did this, too. I think I'll prepare another post about this issue.

 
At May 06, 2005 4:15 PM, Blogger simulev said...

"but in many other Western nations, too"

Try down under on the other side of the Globe.

 
At May 06, 2005 7:12 PM, Anonymous A Swede said...

Yes, exactly.

As long as Muhammad serves as an example there will be war.

This is Islam (submission). Millions of Muslims still look upon Muhammad as the messenger of God. Of course some of them will commit crime, rape and terror as long as they're reading their scriptures literally. Because the so called Qur'an is filled with crime, rape and terror: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Either Muslims accept secularism in the 21st century. Or the nightmare is inevitable.

I opt for the nightmare...

 
At May 07, 2005 12:40 AM, Blogger Michael said...

Congratulations, Fjordman.

Your voice is being heard.


Michael/Belgium

 
At May 07, 2005 7:14 AM, Blogger simulev said...

Fjordman:
"I think I'll prepare another post about this issue."

I look forward to it, a tips along the way. The previous link to Aussie land, the young Lebanese perpetrator got sentenced to 55 years in jail. Last week a somewhat high profile media case, where an asylum seeker from North Africa had assault raped an Swedish passing by innocent mother of a small baby, in broad daylight center of Karlstad got his “punishment”.

Fines, equivalent to about 10.000€, and deportation, after Hospital care, since he we was judged mental instable. What that means in reality, is he will be treated and nursed while having his wanted refugee in a Swedish hospital until he becomes “healthy” again. Usually that can range from anytime between 1 month to lifetime. In his case however lifetime can be short since he is (and knew he was) infected of HIV when raping his victim.

If he was a devoted Muslim it doesn’t say, but he came from a land where the views on women are somewhat flawed and warped according to western standards.

 
At May 07, 2005 10:39 AM, Anonymous Novoguy said...

Can anyone suggest some positive benefits that middle-eastern Muslims bring to the western world. I would like to hear something positive.

We hear about the gang rapes, the drug dealing, the honour killings, the stabbings, the drive-by shootings, the Van Gogh murder, the threatened politicians, the sleeper cells, the unemployment, the welfare dependence, the burqa, sharia law, the rise in antisemitism..just to name a few things. Come on, surely there is something positive.

 
At May 07, 2005 2:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Novoguy said... "Can anyone suggest some positive benefits that middle-eastern Muslims bring to the western world. I would like to hear something positive."

They remind us all that the western world is something worth defending. Hopefully, European fascism will not return but "white guilt" and post-Christian nihilism will disappear forever.

 
At May 07, 2005 4:59 PM, Anonymous A Swede said...

Agree, nihilism / multiculturalism is the real menace. It has to be destroyed root and branch. The only hope here and now is the revival of the western civilization (which is based on a mix of Judeo-Christian ethics, Greco-Roman philosophy and - especially among us Scandinavians - age-old hatred of despotism).

We need a new period of Enlightenment - and the blogosphere is one of several ways to spread the message of Freedom and Truth (actually many blogs is a kind of cyber societies fully comparable with the academies during the Italian Renaissance).

Sweden is definitely messed up (due to the destructive works of the Socialists, Communists, Greens etc.). But there ARE people ready to defend the Western world even here.

Islam (= "submission") is nothing else than pure obscurantism, oppression and violence. The emperor is naked. Lets send this ideology off to hell.

 
At May 08, 2005 12:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As I have posted before - what muslims are doing in Seweden and in the West, is jihad. Jihad is not just fighting by the sword but fighting the kaffir society in all ways that are possible. Thus crime of all sorts, anti-social behaviour, taking the benefit system to the cleaners - is all good jihad.

The result of this is that democratic society will fall apart and the muslim clerics can then loudly claim that they were right ie democracy - a man-made social idea can never be as good as the allah made sharia. It is then that sharia will be offered to the beleagured Swedes, as a way out of their fear and torment. Sharia most definiterly will put a stop to the lawless behaviour of all and sundry. I would not be surprised then that many Swedes will accept such an offer - and who can blame them.

As for us, I do not see any alternative but a complete separation from muslims. No more muslim immigrants. Non-citizen muslims to be deported, and any muslim citizens who do not conform, to be deported as well. It is only then that muslims will behave, for a fear society is the only one they know and respect.

DP111

 
At May 08, 2005 8:22 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How are Swedes so intimidated by their fellow Swedes that these issues can't be debated without fear of reprisals, and yet the immigrants act viciously without any fear of repercussions or loss of their good reputation?

The police of Malmo have apparently lost control of even basic civil order yet they wield unlimited power, along with the courts and media, to suppress the anger of ordinary Swedes.

The contrast between this massive social control existing at the same time as the ongoing breakdown of social order is very surreal.

 
At May 09, 2005 5:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

After failing to euthanize themselves using communism, fascism, nazism and socialism the Europeans have finally settled on a toxic concoction of multiculturalism and radical islam to end their misery. A veritable Do Not Resuscitate Order in the form of Political Correctness will ensure that nobody can seriously talk about an antidote let alone develop one. And just to show that they're serious this time, that this is no cry for help, they've even convinced their only credible ally to ingest a possibly fatal dose of the poison as well.

Europe set it's sail set for self-destruction at least a hundred years ago. The final vista is just over the horizon.

 
At May 09, 2005 7:21 PM, Blogger Don Miguel said...

"After failing to euthanize themselves..."

Anonymous, that post was very astute. IF I were you, I would be proud to my name on something I wrote that was that good.

 
At May 09, 2005 7:38 PM, Anonymous Cronos02@aol.com said...

Has anyone tried organizing some peaceful protests in Sweden? You need to get some people organized and make sure your voice is heard.

You should try starting a group like the minuteman project. In fact maybe you should check out the minuteman website, and get some ideas on how you could do it.

Maybe you should even try e-mailing the minuteman project's founder and see if he can give you some advice.

If you do decide to protest make sure that it remains peaceful, and make sure you protest against the Swedish goverment and not the immigrants.

If you protest against the immigrants you will simply be branded a bunch of racists and that won't solve anything, and beside it's your goverment's responsibility to protect it's people, and they have failed to do that.

Let me know if you decide to do this

 
At May 09, 2005 10:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I visit Malmo at least once a year for my entire life as I have family there. Over the last 10 years or so, the change has been dramatic. I used to walk the streets of the city by myself in typical american fashion with no fear and no consequence. The changes started slowly, then picked up speed. The last time I was there was in July 2004. I did not walk by myself, but made sure that I had a male escort at all times. I did not go out after 9pm (even with an escort). I would not speak in certain places (anything that wasnt a "tourist trap") for fear that the muslim men would know that I was american or jewish. There are signs everywhere demanding death to the US and Isreal and to raise money for terrorist groups. When my family goes to visit my grandfathers grave now, we lie about the address as there is a resturant close by.
I have been followed and threatened when I am alone and had to hide in stores or resturants until I was picked up. Many Swedes living in Malmo feel the same way. The violence against eveyday citizens are becoming more frequent and violent. The police cannot do anything because the attackers are normally teenage boys and the police will not arrest them.
I know of a case where the victim had his store broken into and was beaten with a bat by 9 thugs. The victim punched one of his attackers who was a 17 years old and broke the guy's nose. When the store owner returned to his store a few weeks later (after he was in the hospital for a week) The attacker's mother came to the store and verbally assulted the man for hurting her son. The store owner had called the police and the police came and took the information of the mother. Even though the mother said her son attacked the store owner, the police did nothing and even warned the store owner to move to a safer place for "his kind of people" (jews) as he cannot punch a "child" (the police officer let the store owner off with a warning and said that he would be arrested if he hit another boy-even during an attack) He has been attacked 3 times since and has closed down his store.
I loved Sweden and loved visiting Malmo as it was a beautiful city. I can not walk down the street now without fearing that I will be raped or murdered. We need to let people know the situation and we need to make a stand, if for no other reason then Sweden's open door policy to anyone from terrorist nations posses a risk because a person does not need any ID to go from Malmo to denmark and from there it is just as easy to get to anywhere in Europe.

 
At May 10, 2005 12:16 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting and scary. Additional considerations are that many of the most successful Swedes are moving out in droves. That's why London is considered Sweden's 4th city. And who would ever want to move there if you are trying to raise a family? (unless you come from living in a mudhut in some Arab country) Who would pay 50% of your earnings into a system that will only give you breadcrumbs in return?
Also of note, the Swedish government is anti-entrepreneurial. It is VERY difficult and unrewarding for invandrarar to set up their own businesses, no profit motive and too much bureaucracy. At least in America immigrants (legal or illegal) can work, and maybe start their own company.

 
At May 10, 2005 12:20 AM, Blogger yahoo said...

suck it up paisano. or go down fighting.

;-)

 
At May 10, 2005 7:52 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Swedish - kick everybody parazits to their dirty assholes. Wake up wikings !!!!!!

 
At May 10, 2005 7:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder.Day after day I see the results of some poll or another in Europe that has most of the Europeans agreeing that it is the USA that is the biggest danger to world peace.I hope not another single American soldier dies freeing people that refuse to wake up and protect themselves.Asia needs to be the focus of American trade and diplomacy, not a Dhimmi Europe.

 
At May 11, 2005 5:22 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"So the Swedish state paying for educating Swedish citizens on Swedish ground in Arabic is somehow supposed to increase integration."

If you subsititute "United States"
for "Swedish state" and "Spanish"
for "Arabic" in the quote above, it
looks like the US has the same
problem as Sweden. There's not a
lot of integration, no matter what
the open borders crowd says. In
fact, the open borders crowd thinks
assimilation is contrary to the PC
concept of "diversity."

 
At May 11, 2005 6:33 PM, Anonymous Concerned from Latvia said...

Man, that is one scary read, and I from stories told by visitors there I beleive it true.

I been peacekeeping together with Swedes down south, but never thought about doing similar in Sweden for christssake.

But I will never go to Sweden as peacekeeper, only as tourist maybe or worst case as liberator. F*** the mulims. Sweden for swedes.

 
At May 11, 2005 8:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thank God everyday that my family left Sweden in 1870, and settled in America.
C.Runduist

 
At May 11, 2005 11:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with one of the anonymous posters above that Swedes are welcome here in the US as long as they do not bring their antiquated socialist philosophies with them. Liberty-minded Swedes only, please.

 
At May 12, 2005 1:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't panic, but get active.

Start talking about it.

Refuse to be shut up. Refuse to conform to the stifling dictates of political correctness.

It's your country, not theirs.

They are your cultural enemy. And you guys need to start saying as much.

You must not allow yourselves to be shut up by those who have not the best interests of your dear country at heart.

 
At May 12, 2005 1:43 AM, Anonymous Fredrik said...

"I agree with one of the anonymous posters above that Swedes are welcome here in the US as long as they do not bring their antiquated socialist philosophies with them. Liberty-minded Swedes only, please."

If you're running away from this crap, you don't want to take it with you, I know I wont.

 
At May 12, 2005 6:33 PM, Blogger Crusader Rabbit said...

"Aftonbladet is a f***ing tabloid for crying out loud" [edited for content].

Aftonbladet is indeed in tabloid format, so is Expressen, but that fact is irrelevant to their content.

Aftonbladet is (and has been for a very long time) the acknowledged moutpiece of the SDP. For this reason, and not it's printing format, it can be dismissed as truthless propaganda. Nevertheless if you want to know what the ruling party line is, Aftonbladet should be your document of first resort.

 
At May 12, 2005 7:56 PM, Blogger Jay.Mac said...

Excellent post Fjordman. Absolutely excellent. And pretty damn scary. To think that Sweden is being beset by such problems is a tragedy and a warning against holding the same liberal, politically correct attitudes. Western values of tolerance, equality and democracy and obviously starkly at odds with the beliefs of these immigrants. I wonder though if any other European nations will take notice- or will they be too scared of being labelled "racist" for worrying about unchecked immigration?

 
At May 12, 2005 11:53 PM, Anonymous Syti said...

Fjordman wrote:

Wednesday, May 04, 2005 Is Swedish Democracy Collapsing?

...
The threats against Sweden should serve as a lesson to those who still claim that Islamic terrorism is caused by "Israeli aggression" or "American foreign policy".


There may be other, much older reasons..

...
Sweden crawls to Muslims in every way imaginable, and it still isn't enough.

That is true. Your will also be crawling to your new masters, the people of the old land, who will re-emerge in the near future..

...
There are still Muslim radicals who want to attack it. How are leftists going to spin it when the terror attacks come? Since Islamic terror is caused by occupation and oppression, which illegal settlements are Swedes going to withdraw from to please the Muslims? Stockholm? They've already de facto withdrawn from Malmö.

You may also please them. But you will now need to work much harder to please the people, after what you have caused them, the people, during the centuries..

To be concrete, I will give you some hints, for intermediate withdrawal lines: 1 , 2 , 3 . The final retreat from illegal settlements can be negotiated - or reversed - under certain conditions to be reconciled .. with the people.

And for the usual ingnorant, self-righteous and clueless (censured/manipulated) swede I will give a hint of the final stages of the 1500 years of suffering under occupation and oppression on the indigenous ones of the land, the people, in understandable language.

And now.

You 'swedes' may still be puzzled, as why oh why, what have these disparate things in common with the present, with the dire moans of the fjordman?

You 'swedes' may ask yourself as why is this all happening to your once so great and prosperous, so enlighted and advanced country?

You 'swedes' may wonder why is your country and your leaders letting this all to go on, without them intervening it hardly at all, to that what is disrupting and ravaging your state, society and it's spirit?

I will let you know, what the ancient winds have whispered faintly and gently to my ears, back from the spirits of generations of the people, from foregoing centuries, still living among us, in the nature, in the forests.


You, 'swedes', have been cursed.


By mighty ones of the people, the finno-ugric indigenous peoples of the land - Skandi, Thule, or whatever you now call it. By the warlocks of the finns, by the shamens of the samís. By the people who lived there, before you. The indigenous peoples that lived there before you arrived. The peoples you ravaged, pillaged and killed. The peoples, land of which you occupied and stole. The people that you oppressed and forced to abandon their culture, language, religion and identity. The people whose history you almost completely destroyed. You did that. And it was not enough. You continued further north and east, across the sea, to the land of the remaining ones - that was named for that, Finland. But you did not succeed so well any more. The peoples could defeat that, as well as the eastern intruders, and the people stood later on it's own, as independent nation of the people.

But, the people are not of pure evil, so you, 'swedes' are given a chance for expiation and atonement. Under certain circumstances that you have to fullfill, in real. Your reassurances and lies will not do it. Not anymore.


The curse of the people will be lifted, if:

1. You will, publicly, completely, officially and internationally, confess all youe crimes against the people.

2. You will reinstate completely the indigenous cultures of the people, as equal national indigenous and original part of your nation.

3. You will lift the languages of the people as equal official languages of your country (along with your strange and ugly fabricated language). The languages of the people will naturally be obligational languages in schools, aministration, culture and commerce.

4.-X. I will reserve to not to reveal other oblications you will need to match. They may be revealed later.


The curing of the problems your land will depend on how willingly and rapidly you will implement the will of the spirits of the oppressed generations of the people.

I have now carried out my part as a messenger of the spirits. You have been informed and advised. The curse will be lifted and sanity of your leaders returned, after you fullfill the will.

 
At May 13, 2005 1:54 PM, Anonymous A Swede said...

Syti,

Your spirit seems to be based on delusions and resentment (actually, it sounds a little bit like the demon employed by bin Laden). The Finno-Ugrians were also migrants, immigrants and - sic - conquerors once (ever heard of Hungary?). Their language is definitely related to Eurasia (closer to the Mongolian-Altaic group than Celtic. Latin or German). However, there's room for all sorts of "peoples" in Scandinavia (remember Finno-Ugrian Finland, Finno-Ugrian Estonia or several acknowledged Finno-Ugrian enclaves in Sweden including Tornedalen). So what is your point?

 
At May 13, 2005 1:59 PM, Anonymous A Swede said...

...but of course I understand that you're joking.

 
At May 13, 2005 4:56 PM, Anonymous Syti said...

Swede wrote:

Syti, Your spirit seems to be based on delusions and resentment (actually, it sounds a little bit like the demon employed by bin Laden).


The aforementioned person does not stem from the areas of the people, so your argument is not valid.

The Finno-Ugrians were also migrants, immigrants and - sic - conquerors once (ever heard of Hungary?).

True, the ice age was far too cold for the people, as for everybody else. But then, the people were too much for the swedes who intruded the areas of the people, after them. Check the maps.

The peoples of the Pusta have indeed made their deeds, for which they have paid a price. You will too (you already are paying, as fjordman has pointed out).

Their language is definitely related to Eurasia (closer to the Mongolian-Altaic group than Celtic. Latin or German).

They still belong to the language group of the people. You don't. And you had the nerve to not tolerate it for long, in areas where you came after the people. Why couldn't you let the people have their language and their folkways?

However, there's room for all sorts of "peoples" in Scandinavia (remember Finno-Ugrian Finland, Finno-Ugrian Estonia or several acknowledged Finno-Ugrian enclaves in Sweden including Tornedalen). So what is your point?

What is my point??!!

You ignorant, self-righteous and clueless swede (this proves it, again). Read again what I wrote and what I linked, in my previous message.

The present so called "Finno-Ugrian enclaves" are the remainings of once majority culture of areas now known as Sweden.

The culture, that you didn't want to leave much room for, not then and not even today. But you pushed them with the swedification up north.

Compare the language politics in the eastern neighbouring country of the people, with the Sweden. Who has left more room for culture, the swedes (un-peoplificators) or the people?

However, there's room for all sorts of "peoples" in Scandinavia.

Your acts show otherwise. And in a twisted way. Instead of accepting the indigenous language and culture of the people as equal part of the state that you created (with your later imported/invented language) you pushed the language of the people into corner of the state, and only unwillingly and after much begging of the people, did you give it a nominal minority status - only couple of decades ago with hardly any practical meaning.

...but of course I understand that you're joking.

Am I? Or am I not? This is what you have to decide, partially or as a whole.

Is fjordman joking?

Are the news just jokes? Or old documents? Or are the acts of desert men just jokes? Is a pain just joke?

Is life a joke?

You have seen my points listed, you have read them, but refuse to even acknowledge them.

You have the essences of the past and future before you. The future of the un-peoplificators lies in their own hands and deeds. The fjordman has shown the consequences. I have shown the causes. You have shown and will show your ability learn and listen. But as with almost all un-peoplificators, your blindness and deafness is evident.

I will not try to guide you further, as you were shown the way. Unless you and your kin will not take act, the future will be guided by your fate.

 
At May 13, 2005 5:32 PM, Anonymous A Swede said...

OK Syti. Good luck.

P S Enclaves = areas in Middle and Northern Sweden with Finnish immigrants (from the time before 1809 and further on). They don't belong to some kind of exclusive or "original" population.

 
At May 14, 2005 2:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That was a depressing read for me, but at least you are brave enough to confront the problem. I'm a musician from the USA and spent most of 1983 in Sweden. I saw a lot of the country and loved it. Loved the people (You have the most beautiful women in the world! ;^)) and - dare I say it? - loved the CUTURE. It's worth fighting for, so keep it up.

 
At May 15, 2005 8:48 AM, Anonymous Vilmos Soti said...

Fjordman,

This was a very depressing article. I translated the article to Hungarian, so whose who read my site can see where the runaway immigration and socialist mismanagement (hey, in that topic, WE can teach you a thing and too...) leads.

The article is available at http://cikkek.soti.ca/swedish-democracy-collapsing.html

Instead of saying thanks (like for a funeral invitation), I just hope that the very last sentence in your post is still not valid.

Vilmos

 
At May 15, 2005 3:48 PM, Blogger Scott S said...

Any Swedes with their eyes open and who will not stand for this anymore are welcome in America.

 
At May 16, 2005 7:53 AM, Blogger Mike H. said...

Anonymous @ 5:22am, If you look at the names of the most vocal opponents you will find that they are indistinguish -able from the illegals. We do assimilate, but you are correct we need to control the border.

 
At May 16, 2005 7:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A few comments from another Swede.

Browsing through the article, I'd say the facts are mostly correct ('mostly' since I refuse to check all of it but nothing I saw struck me as being different from what I have seen elsewhere) although there are exaggerations here and there.

What should be remembered is that ANY compilation of selected facts like this, regarding ANY topic is likely to hit you equally hard. Without necessarily painting a true picture.

I would say that any religous mix brings with it a risk (certainty) for conflict. Even the European Union where protestants and catholics are mixed is a reason for conflicts (heck, our ancestors died protecting us from catholicism/the catholics...). And not primarily because of the religion as such (most enlightened people these days simply HAVE to be mainly secularized I would hope), but since religion, being an important part of the cultural heritage, has shaped the ethics of the society. So, although many problems in Sweden can be said to be 'islam-related', they are probably more correctly described as based on people from completely different cultural backgrounds, with a completely different ethics engraved in them since birth. And in some cases from societies that I would describe as medieval. So, rather than blaming islam, it shopuld be possible to blame it on 'anyone from the middle east', 'anyone with dark eyes' or 'anyone with black hair'. All of these happening to be other features the 'bad guys' have in common.

The most distressing/depressing/sad and unfortunately all too true part of the article is the lack of open debate.

Anyway, of course depending on what you are looking for in life, Sweden is still a better place to be than most other places in the world.

 
At May 17, 2005 6:24 PM, Anonymous Conan Rabarben said...

Sylti:
I know your'e joking since you got none, whatsoever, knowledge of the Scandinavian peninsula history. You're probably never sat your foot here. Recent studies shows that Samis, Finns or "the people" as you call it came to this peninsula after the indo-european speaking tribes; the Swedes in another word. So, the natives of scandinavia were blond, blue-eyed and spoke a language from the indo-european tree. Black haired, mongolian looking tribes as the samis came from north east many years AFTER the ice had melted. The original tribes (now Swedes)came from the south while the ice where still melting.

 
At May 17, 2005 7:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

(most enlightened people these days simply HAVE to be mainly secularized I would hope),

ELITIST ALERT!!!

 
At May 20, 2005 11:00 PM, Anonymous Hidden Nook said...

It is sad to see this nation decend to such a state. Is this the end for Sweden as we know it?

 
At May 23, 2005 2:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a Swede I can’t deny it: Fjordman present correct pieces of the puzzle, but it’s not the whole puzzle.

I think the best comparison to explain the cultural mentality in Sweden is the polish people under the communistic occupation, even if Sweden is occupied of its own political correct elite. The chattering classes are surrendering to Muslim demands and don’t recognise the Swedish culture, history and traditions.

Why? They are socialists and don’t see any value in our own traditions. But they have no problem to seek values in other cultures, like Islamism, Buddhism or whatever – as long as it’s NOT our own Swedish culture.

This attitude you will not find among ordinary Swedish citizen. But Swedes don’t protest. We know, as Poles did during the communist occupation, there is no point in complaining. The political correctness totally dominate the official debate in Sweden and you get totally crushed in all media and in all political parties if you want to protest.

And why complain? We Swedes seldom meet Muslims. The Swedish society is extremely segregated and the immigrants live in suburbs – ghettos - far away from the city centre or calm residential district. And as long as they don’t disturb Swedes ordinary life, we keep quiet. Most adult Swedes has never been exposed to violence.

As Christopher Caldwell stated in Weekly Standard (02/28/2005): “A very low rate of mixed marriage is an indication that Swedes may not have been crazy about this immigration in the first place.”

The Swedish heritage is dominated by our history as poor – but free – farmers. We have a strong informal spirit of togetherness within our closest friend and family. A usual complain among immigrants is that they, even if they reside in Sweden for 20-30 years, never ever have been invited to the home of a Swedish family. We keep our lives for ourselves. And as long as immigrants don’t intrude in this close circle, we don’t mind how they live. We certainly not want to intrude in there's life.

This has maked it possible for the political class of socialists to do what they want without protests.

If the violence increase and really disturb ordinary Swedes life, you will se a dramatically shift of opinion. Swedes have a natural low profile, but if you really offend us, you will take notice. Don’t forget the Vikings or the Swedish king Gustavus II Adolphus who occupied half of Europe some time ago...

 
At May 23, 2005 8:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It always cracks me up when Swedes talk about being Vikings. The Swedish Vikings were completely different than Norwegian, Danish or Icelandic. The Swedish Vikings were quite calm in comparison, were mostly interested in trading, not plundering, raping, piliging, or taking on in combat anyone who gets in their way.
I wish it was not the case, but Sweden is completely unable to defend itself, they have no armed forces of note. History portrays them (the males) as "mild mannered" like they are today - don't want to confront - just mind your own business and it will go away . . . .

 
At May 23, 2005 8:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And what is wrong about being "quite calm" Vikings in that comparison, and being "mostly interested in trading"?

Of course, Sweden "is completely unable to defend itself" - like most countries in Europe today.

But you don't understand what kind of mentality that conceals behind "mild manner" if you can't just mind your own business and it doesn't go away...

 
At May 31, 2005 1:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

anyone read the interesting article in the Guardian newspaper re women in Iraq in 2005?
"An Empty Sort of Freedom" by Houzan Mahmoud
Try this:
www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1164268,00

 
At May 31, 2005 1:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

re Guardian story - the story number should read:
0,3604,1164268,00

 
At June 14, 2005 1:49 PM, Blogger Al.R.O'Ackbar said...

I reckon there should be world wide marches against Islamist terrorism like there were over the Iraq war. It is a fact that wherever muslims form the majority they oppress all minorities and impose sharia law upon them. Where they form minorities there is invariably trouble beteween them and everyone else, in Europe, America, Asia, Africa. This is the fault of everyone else of course.

No more mosques should be built in Europe until we see churches standing in Mecca.

 
At June 14, 2005 1:55 PM, Blogger Al.R.O'Ackbar said...

March on 9/11

Hello Islam. Goodbye Freedom!

Apostates come out!

Women burn your burkhas!

 
At June 24, 2005 3:12 PM, Blogger veritas said...

I have only one thing to say to syti:

BRAVO.

I have yet to encounter a more perfect example of the crystalized venom and hypocracy that is embedded in the heart and mind of the islamic fundamentalist.

The classic examples are all there:

Self rightous delusions of grandeur

Blind and illogical hatred

Antiquated superstition

Truly, logic and truth have been tossed to the wind with an abandon that must astound those who are sane.

This whole twisted line of “reasoning”, this willful perversion of logic, perfectly illustrates the fundamental flaw that rots at the core of the islamic fundamentalist philosophy. Every spiteful and humiliating demand is based on perceived wrongs that happened as long ago as the last ice age. To say that these “people” hold a grudge is quite the understatement.

Now even if one is exceedingly charitable and accepts the account that they were supplanted by invaders (a fact solely dependent on a very selective view of historic events as it ignores that they were themselves invaders before they were invaded) and in that way wronged, even if one takes pause and thinks “perhaps they have some right to be indignant” there still remains the truth that they have absolutely no right to harbor vengence toward the decedents of these wrongdoers or to take actions against them in the name of reparations for the past.

These supposed wrongs happened thousands of years ago. You would do as well to declare jihad against the glacier that displaced so many in the past and cause the movement of peoples in the first place. It accomplishes nothing. The truth is that the past cannot be changed. No amount of groveling before the islamic world will change the fact the the people were displace centuries ago, and in advocating this indignity the extremists are simply becoming those who they despise: hatemongering usurpers. In a word, they are no better than the Infidel which they claim to abhor. Oppressing the innocent who cannot be held responsible for the actions of those long dead.

The single greatest fallacy however, is the concept that the world must returned to this era long past, before they were displaced. The fundamentalist movement champions a return to the “old ways”, old laws, old tradition, and old borders. This is utterly wrong.

Science is the pursuit of truth and therefore the pure scientific method cannot be argued anymore than mathematics. We know as a fact because of science that all life changes over time. It evolves and adapts as the environment changes around it. Just as bacteria change to avoid antibiotics and weeds to resist herbicides, so too must all living creatures change to survive. To cease to change is to become obsolete. To resist change hastens the only possible outcome. Extinction.

For islam to return to the extremist ways of old is to be utterly destroyed. A society that relies on suppressing knowledge and brainwashing their foolhardy and zealous youth cannot exist in a world where information and ideas flow freely to all parts of the earth. The only way to perpetuate the lie of fundamentalist islam is to shun technology completely. To do so can only result in islam being swept aside by those better armed with technology and most importantly with truth, a weapon that no jihad can hope to withstand.

The truly sad part is that in clarifying these truths it does not matter. It cannot change the attitudes of these manipulators because they already know all of these truths.

The instigators of the islamic hate and zealotry know fully that there is no redemption at the end of their jihad. They know that western society will never make enough concessions to satisfy the fanatics because that is not the purpose of this conflict.

This perversion of islam is all a thinly veiled attempt to paint a religious façade on a purely political force. A hostile expansionist wave of societal decay that seeks to plunge the world into a state of subservience to a single master “people”. An insidious force built upon the foundations of sexual repression, forced ignorance, and superstition the likes of which would surpass the worst that nazi germany could ever have hoped perpetrate upon this earth.

So feel free, my dear syti, to spew your vial vitriol. But know this. If you believe the words you speak, then you are utterly deceived. And if you are one who knowingly labors for those who blindly hate, then you are doomed to absolute failure and annihilation.

 
At June 26, 2005 2:42 PM, Blogger Laxman said...

Hello,
Many of the posters do not understand what is at stake.If wonderful Sweden falls it has a 'Domino effect'.The world is at stake.We have been fighting these goons in the east, in India 700 years and though badly bruised still survive.You Vikings better get your act up and send all immigrants back asap.And think of strategies in day to day life that helps the cause for the world's freedom.Freedom is too precious.Anything to preserve freedom-anything.And you Nordics do not know that you have the most advanced civization ever-we can tell you that!
I am a Hindu in India -fast becoming dhimmiland too, sadly-we will not let it become ofcourse!!!!!!

 
At June 27, 2005 9:14 PM, Blogger larz said...

sweden is not alone in dealing with these sorts of problems...

what will it take for people to wake up and recognize that the danger comes not from immigration, but from within?

the people of a nation have to be willing to defend national interests and not simply waive interest in nationalism...

good luck to sweden...

myself? i'm stocking 9mm ammunication packed in nitrogren, along with semiautomatic weapons...

 
At June 29, 2005 10:25 PM, Blogger jimgoism said...

http://jimgoism.blogspot.com/

I have documented this on my blog as well...

I am working with a man from sweden i didnt realize why.. he and his wife left...

NOW I DO...

 
At July 09, 2005 6:52 PM, Blogger British National Party member said...

God bless you, i am a member of the British national party, and it is wonderfull to see a work of this quality showing the dangers of muslims. We have just had around 60-70 people killed and countless severely wounded due to our harbouring of them and pathetic multicultural ideals, but still our media squashes any dissent.

God bless you, god help us all.

 
At August 10, 2005 1:36 AM, Blogger Spire said...

As a Swede, I must paraphrase a columnist in national tabloid Expressen, and this goes for us Swedes as well as fellow Europeans and Americans:

--[Article-writers who wrote that the London Bombings were a victory for the terrorists] are NOT right. They will NEVER win. We will NEVER lose. We are never going to stick up our arses in the sky, praying towards Mecca. We will never force our women to wear veils.--

As long as this holds true, and it does both in North America, Europe and Sweden (contrary to the impression from the article and from the single politican Mona Sahlin, Sweden and Swedes have a rich history and culture, which we are really attached to; try for example to find a Swede ready to abandon our old tradition of Midsummer -- you won't) the Muslims' attempts, jihad or elsewhat, will be futile and unsuccessful.

May I also report that although the elections in this country are still 13 months away, it looks very good. The non-socialist parties, who have formed an alliance to challenge social democracy, are having a lead in the polls since almost a year ago I believe -- and quite a strong lead, stronger than in years. Our traditional conservative party, the Moderates (gone a bit soft to avoid the same bias from the left the have recieved since decades), is now bigger (around 30 %; Sweden has seven parties in the parliament) in the polls than the Social Democrats. In a recent survey, not even the traditional left voters think they will win this one. For the first time ever (it feels like), more Swedes consider themselves as generally to the right than vice versa; the debate is also much more rigorous now.

Unfortunately, this upswing is not because of an outspoken dissent from the development written about here (i.e. immigration) but because of (in my opinion as well as many others) indirect effects of immigration, for example cut health care service, police, unemployment and the like. Nor is it because anyone has publicly reacted upon all this. BUT, the right-wing parties have a completely different attitude towards immigration problems and what to do about it.

And, if there is a blatant anti-immigration party coming up, Swedes will be ready to vote for it: in the last election, the Liberals (another party in today's Alliance) announced they would support language testing on all applicants applying for citizenry just a few days before the election day. Guess what? They rised from 4 % to 12 % during those days, and continue to be there, and this was announced by -- yes, it's true all Americans -- the Liberals.

So, one can only hope, but remember what I said in the beginning: WE WILL NEVER LOSE OR GIVE AWAY OUR CULTURE. NEVER.

 
At September 03, 2005 2:31 AM, Blogger British National Party member said...

This is an american CBS report on muslims in Sweeden, as seen on Sweedish TV. (link takes you to a page containing video downloads, it is the top one)

http://www.muslimsout.org/videos/videos.htm

 
At September 06, 2005 4:09 PM, Blogger KT said...

Excellent posting Fjordman !!
We could do with a similar blog here in the UK.
I have commenced a blog record of what is going on in the UK in general
http://jihadwatcher.blogspot.com/

Any comments/advice would be welcome

Rob

 
At November 08, 2005 1:47 PM, Blogger oskar said...

@ Novoguy:

Fjordman is correct in saying that the Swedish political and media elite are not aware of the treat to democracy which islam is. The instance with pastor Sörgaard (who's actually more of a reality TV celebrity and former husband of a famous singer and not really seen as a serious pastor) is just an example of this.

However, Sweden is hardly "falling apart" as Fjordman likes to say. Sweden is one of only three countries in the EU with a budget surplus and its GDP growth has been higher than the EU average for the past decade. And this is without any oil or EU subsidies.

Sure, there's lots of economic issues which need solving, including overall tax levels, but the economy is actually pretty reformed (incl. pensions).

As for social policy, this is slower to reform, as external pressures are not a strong in here as they are in the economic field. But I'm pretty sure things will come around here too.

 

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