Friday, December 02, 2005

Online Workshop Part 3: What are Islam's Weak Points, and How do We Exploit Them? What are Ours, and How do We Fix Them?

How do we defeat Islam? What are Islam's weak points, and what are ours? Ali Sina from Faith Freedom International wants to confront Islam by education. I support and applaud his efforts, but I don't think they will solve all the problems. Quite a few hardcore Islamists have more than average education, for instance. Islam has rational components. It is an excellent warrior creed (or at least used to be) and is great as an excuse for plundering the wealth of others. But first and foremost, it is an irrational cult based on fear. As such, it may not always be susceptible to rational arguments. So what is the solution? Please give your thoughts about this, and I'll make another post about the issue later. For inspiration, you can start with reading a couple of essay by Ohmyrus over at FFI, and continue with some comments by readers over at the Gates of Vienna:

Once were warriors: Why Islam failed Muslims

Islam is a warrior’s creed that served its early followers well. From impoverished desert tribes, they rose to forge an empire in a short time that stretched from Spain to India. The ethos it engendered – brotherhood for believers, contempt and hatred for non-believers, belief in heavenly rewards for fallen warriors, a high fertility rate (which requires the subordination of women), blind obedience – created formidable warriors. But these same qualities are handicaps for Muslims in the age of the microchip. Today they lead to poverty, belligerency, war and defeat. Many Muslims look back with fondness to their days of glory and try to recover their former days by using the old methods. That is why there is today a rising tide of Islamic fundamentalism across the Muslim world. They are bewildered at their weakness and look for conspiracy theories. Muslims think their failure is due to some Jewish or American plot not realizing that failure comes from within themselves. They are out of touch with reality. Once were warriors, Muslims are now like Don Quixote tilting at windmills in a world they no longer understand.

World War IV

Islam also teaches Muslims to see themselves as part of a nation of Muslims who happen to live in different countries – even in non-Muslim ones. Their loyalty to the nation state is subordinated to the loyalty to the Ummah. This is so even if they are second or third generation British or American or whatever. Each new generation will be taught by Islam to maintain its primary loyalty to the Ummah. Even new converts switch loyalty. In World War IV, the US has handicapped itself by making false declarations such as “Islam is peace”. All world wars have at least three components – the military, ideological and the economic. In World War III, the ideological component was more important than the military one. In World War I and II, it was the military component that was more important. Yet by praising Islam, Bush and Blair have already given up the ideological warfare without firing a shot.

You cannot defeat Islamism without defeating Islam. It is like trying to fight Communism while praising Marxist economic theories! In the Cold War, the US and its allies did not hesitate to argue that Marxism is a false ideology. Marx's ideas are wrong and cannot lead mankind to a better future. The democratic world must make the same case against Islam. Otherwise, we cannot win without relying heavily on the military component, which means more bloodshed. Perhaps we cannot win at all. Remember what Sun Wu said in his classic, “The Art of War”. The side with the higher moral standing is more likely to win. To do this, a leader must convince his people that their cause is just. You cannot persuade your people to make exertions if they do not understand what they are up against. Thus the burden of ideological warfare falls on groups like FFI.

Confronting the Enemy

peggy said...

I have been saying for a long time that the solution to the problem that islam poses is a simple one if we only have the courage and vision to pursue it relentlessly. Just tell the truth about it. The truth is our greatest weapon. We should only resort to other means if our free speech to protest against islam were threatened by the powers that be and then it is our right as citizens to fight those powers. The average muslim person should never have to worry about our intentions towards their persons or families or property or businesses or prayer centers as long they abide by the laws of our land. If we keep to the high ground, we should with time be able to turn things around. The first idea we must get across with meticulous care is this: It is possible to oppose islam without bearing hatred towards all those who believe it and everyone should be able to freely and openly dispute the ideas and beliefs of others by right as long as they dont call for violence against the other group in an indiscriminate way that would hurt peaceable folks.

Heloise said: Mohammed was a brilliant intuitive leader/general/ and he and his companions devised a near perfect closed system of war aginst the rest of humanity. Although a large percentage of the muslim world is illiterate, I don't believe that education is the answer here for I know muslims with PhD's that want the world to become islamic and for the sharia to be the law of all lands. Rather, I think, only by showing allah is not infallible can we be victorious in keeping our freedom, our life, our liberty and pursuit of our happiness.

Jason_Pappas said...

Be honest – brutally honest. Peggy covered this but let me put it in my words. Call things as they are. We are civilization and we should boast of our aspirations and achievements. We are facing Islamic barbarians and we should make the appropriate moral judgments without hesitation. I trust I don’t have to explain this point in this venue. Nor do I have to contrast this with the moral equivalence, relativism, and multi-cultural nonsense. Let’s appreciate two important points about being honest – its effect on us and its effect on them. Being honest will reaffirm our values, maintain our intellectual and moral clarity, and maintain morale. It’s the only way to live. That being said, there is also the instrumental effect on the enemy. Arab societies are very sensitive to humiliation and shame. During the 19th century, when the British weren’t shy about their cultural greatness, they helped to virtually eradicate slavery around the world. They shamed Arabs into changing. Muslims never developed Abolitionist Societies but they did capitulate and marginalize many aspects of their religion.

PD111 said...


Your comparison of islam to cancer, set me off in a flight of whimsical thought, yet again.

Over the years islam has been a compared to a virus, cancer, a pandemic. In some ways yes. However, such diseases are unthinking, they are bacteria, virus or the body attacking itself. None of these are able to plan and think. Islam OTH is carried forward by human beings capable of planning, thinking, and organising a plan of devouring infidel cultures, all in keeping with explicitly written down instructions in the jihad manual. Islam in my view, is more like a predator- a tiger or lion, and one that operates in the social domain. Islam is really a very good predator in the cultural domain, in and off human cultures. There is no other predator in the cultural domain except islam.

If we regard islam as a top predator and the rest as prey, it is easy to see why no other culture, whether Hindu, Buddhist or Christian has been able to withstand islam. No matter if a deer resists or not, it has no chance against a tiger or lion. The deer can preach the benefits of vegetarianism to the tiger as much as it likes (as our politicians are doing right now), the tiger will merely smile and then proceed to devour the deer.

Here again is an oft quoted view of Churchill on islam.

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”

—Sir Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).

Note in particular the last sentence. Christianity withstod islam not because of its martial strength but because it was fortunate enough to invent modern science and its handmaiden - technology.

So how do we tackle a predator such a tiger or a pride of lions prowling about our towns and cities. There are two humane options in current use.

1. Dart and confine them to a zoo (prison), where they are unable to harm humans.

2. Sedate and then ship back to the wilds i.e. to their native habitat.

We are at the moment employing option 1 i.e. after the predator has killed a human or several humans.

Islam is a code of life that was codified by Mohammed for a tribal and nomadic culture. If some humans persist to live by this code in civilised and settled societies such as ours, then a severe clash is inevitable, as we are finding out. If in addition the tribal culture is predatory, then we have virtually no options left except 2. The lion or the tiger will not lie down with the lamb.

I believe that option 2 is far better. We are happy and the predator is also more content in his native habitat.

The Carnival of the Armchair Generals

Bill said...

I'm not taking exception here about the posters who desire the "high ground." It is a strategy to win, and that alone makes it unassailable from the standpoint of those who would surrender. However.... Why should America bother to take the high ground? Someone explain to me the benefits of America playing by "white glove" rules when no one else will play by them? Who are we trying to impress? Our own egos? The rest of the world will undoubtedly write a history that excoriates our war and how we win it (under the assumption that we will). If we are the bad, evil bastards no matter how we wage this war, does it make any logical sense to hamstring our efforts to win as quickly and as efficiently as possible? We're going to be villains no matter how we act. Just look at Gitmo for any indication of the world's opinion, no matter how far we push the royal treatment on people that have never before seen such luxury. This high ground? Is this just a salve for our own conscience as secularist Americans (whatever religious background) because we're engaging a war against a politically correct religion in contravention of all politically correct righteousness? More lives will be spent this way.

The playing field will NEVER be level, Peggy. Islam fights from Heaven. You cannot change that fact, for devout Muslims. There is no higher place than heaven. Muslims have no need for a level field. They, according to their Qu'ran, are gods chosen ones. There is no "high ground" that we can occupy, in regards to Islam. We will win, or they will win, by the sword.


At December 02, 2005 11:01 PM, Blogger Mike H. said...

Then we have to achieve the high ground by being nicer to them than they are to us. We should help them to achieve their goals. I present, ladies and gentlemen, the 72 Virgins Dating Service.

At December 03, 2005 12:36 AM, Blogger simulev said...

Islams weak spot is the women.

At December 03, 2005 1:51 AM, Blogger Mike H. said...

Simulev, I can't get there from here. I don't know what is going on with the link.

At December 03, 2005 2:00 AM, Blogger Mike H. said...

On my link the page requested is not the one that I posted try this link

At December 03, 2005 2:15 AM, Blogger bordergal said...

Islam has lots of very serious sectarian rifts. Exploit them, unlike what we are doing in Iraq.

Can we sic the Whahhabis on the Shia and Sunni?

At December 03, 2005 2:25 AM, Blogger Cosmophant said...

"There is no "high ground" that we can occupy, in regards to Islam. We will win, or they will win, by the sword."


At December 03, 2005 8:29 AM, Blogger ik said...

There are 2 aspects to solutions

1. Buying time

Solutions like making them fight among each other, pushing them all out of Europe etc. is buying time - future generations still have to solve the problem. There is nothing wrong with buying time - the advent of the modern age and technologies like TV/cable/internet MIGHT slowly eat away at Islam and slowly solve the problem. - the problem is still whether the time taken by the modern world to penetrate inside Islam will be too long for the world to survive

2. Ending the problem
This would require large parts of the opinion makers of the world recognizing that Islam is not a "religion" but an "ideology". Once that is done then the ideology would have to be tackled on all levels just like communism. This would involve translating the Koran in all known languages and making sure a lot of people read it and understand the danger. This would also involve "deconstructing" the koran Maybe Derrida could finally be put to some good use! Or in short - It's the ideology stupid!

At December 03, 2005 3:26 PM, Blogger truth serum said...

Islamist's weak points are many, but the biggest one as I see it is that they have deeply insecure personality characteristics. They feel humiliated and paranoid about everything. In defense of their ego's and by extention their religion they do stupid things, such as the London bombings and sharing the beheading videos with the rest of the world. While these tactics are successful in terrorizing people, they also alert Western peoples that Islam may not be the "religion of peace and tolerance" that it proports it to be. It certainly has with me. I had to know more.

While these hotheads are our immediate worry, our real problem is the subtle "jihad" that is being perpetuated by the more sophisticated Muslims. Some are heads of state, diplomats, intellectuals, mid east college professors, civil rights group leaders, etc. They have been playing the game for much longer.

Their "game" is exploiting our weak points, which are multiculturism, political correctness, self hatred, etc. They are using the media; newspapers, television, internet to spread disinformation about Islam and exploit European guilt of their supposed historical atrocities. They have infiltrated educational institutions such as colleges, high schools, and grade schools to do the same as mentioned above. Politically, they have brilliantly managed to get free speech manacled, influence other polititions (undoubtedly with a little money thrown their way) to sacrifice up their own nation{s} and people(s)to their onslaught.

While we obviously have military might, how do we use it when the Islamists are so fractured? There is no one nation at the moment that we can pinpoint.

A representative of Colorado, Congressman Tancredo created a stir when he mentioned in an interview that we ought to consider nuking Mecca as a form of detente. He likened it to the Cold War. If you nuke or attack us we will take something precious of yours...forever. I agree with that as it does send a serious warning to Islamists everywhere, but in our multicultural, politically correct world of isn't going to happen.

So what do we have left to fight with? I think we should use their own tactics...short of terrorism of course.

It will have to be at the grass roots level. In other words, take it to the people.

First by informing people. It will have to be done with tact as people are so ingrained with political correctness and multiculturialism. Personally, I send out a weekly periodical to many of my friends and family with Islamic articles through email. That starts people talking and thinking about the TRUTH. I just make conversation about the latest Islamic attack and say something like, "Did you know that..." People must understand what they are really up against. I also send articles to the media and express myself through letters to politicians.

Important as well, is to vote for politicians and parties who are expressing the truth and taking a stand against the Islamists. You must put other issues aside temporarily. They are secondary for without defeating the Islamists first, the other issues have no meaning.

Lastly, if you are a parent, pay attention to what they are teaching your children. Read the books they bring home, especially about history. If you find misinformation or disinformation, bring it to the attention of school authorities and OTHER PARENTS. Notify the media if you can get no satisfaction from the authorities. They hate publicity of the truth. Of course, you may have to go back and read history books written before the 60's as revisionist history has been going on since then.

I could go on and on but time constraints won't let me. I am going to be late for an appointment now. Please forgive me for any spelling a rush. Hopefully I have gotten my point across. We have to take our culture and our very lives back from those who have stolen it from us.

Our strength is ourselves.

At December 04, 2005 5:48 PM, Blogger bordergal said...

We also need legal teams to challenge Muslim's bullying behavior.

EG Marriots shameful decision not to allow a terrorism talk, but to allow CAIR.

Those folks need to be taken to the woodshed.

At December 05, 2005 6:43 PM, Blogger Snouck said...

Until the West woke up in 2001 3 million Jews kept Islam at bay for 53 years. So how can we not survive in this contest with Islam. It is just a matter of getting serious, really.


At December 08, 2005 8:22 PM, Blogger Pastorius said...

I think Islam's greatest weakness is twofold:

1) Muslims are extremely childish in their view of themselves and the world - they are superstitious and thus afraid of pigs, and dogs, and Koran's getting dirty etc. They are also paranoid that their women will be stolen from them.

2) They continually tell us the truth about their paranoia, and their intentions.

Therefore, I think one of the best tactics for us to take in the War on Terror is to mock them and exploit their childishness, so that they will expose themselves to everyone.

Here's a post I did on this subject, called The Battle of The Big-Boobed Burqa-Wearing Bimbo

That is step one.

For step two, I agree with Jason Pappas.

At December 13, 2005 11:21 AM, Blogger phiser said...

Islams weak point ?

Better discuss what the heck is our (politicians) weak points that allows muslims to act as they do in our civilized countries !

Political "correctnes" is the cause to a endless row of hardcorecrime,rape, murder +++ at the western population.

Television and radio is actively "hiding" information that muslims is extreme overrepresented in the above mentioned crimes.

Political correctnes ? ,,,,

Number of times Jerusalem is mentioned in the Old Testament: over 700
Number of times Jerusalem is mentioned in the Koran: 0

Number of Arab leaders who visited Jerusalem when it was under Arab rule
(1948 to 1967): 1
Number of Arab refugees who fled the land that became Israel: approximately 600,000
Number of Jewish refugees who fled Arab countries: approximately 600,000

Number of U.N. agencies that deal only with Palestinian refugees: 1
Number of U.N. agencies that deal with all the other refugees in the world: 1

Number of Jewish states that have existed on the land called Palestine: 3
Number of Arab or Muslim states that have existed on the land called Palestine: 0

Number of terrorist attacks by Israelis or Jews since 1967: 1
Number of terrorist attacks by Arabs or Muslims since 1967: thousands

Percentage of Jews who have praised the Jewish terrorist: approximately 0.1
Percentage of Palestinians who have praised Islamic terrorists:approximately 90

Number of Jewish countries: 1
Number of Jewish democracies: 1

Number of Arab countries: 19
Number of Arab democracies: 0

Number of Arab women killed annually by fathers and brothers in "honor killings": thousands
Number of Jewish women killed annually by fathers and brothers in "honor killings": 0

Number of Christian or Jewish prayer services allowed in Saudi Arabia: 0
Number of Muslim prayer services allowed in Israel: unlimited

Number of Arabs Israel allows to live in Arab settlements in Israel: 1,250,000
Number of Jews Palestinian Authority allows to live in Jewish settlementsin Palestinian Authority: 0

Percentage of U.N. Commission on Human Rights resolutions condemning an Arab country for human rights violations: 0
Percentage of U.N. Commission on Human Rights resolutions condemning Israel for human rights violations: 26

Number of U.N. Security Council resolutions on the Middle East between 1948 and 1991: 175
Number of these resolutions against Israel: 97
Number of these resolutions against an Arab state: 4

Number of Arab countries that have been members of the U.N. Security Council: 16
Number of times Israel has been a member of the U.N. Security Council: 0

Number of U.N. General Assembly resolutions condemning Israel: 322
Number of U.N. General Assembly resolutions condemning an Arab country: 0

Percentage of U.N. votes in which Arab countries voted with the United States in 2002: 16.6
Percentage of U.N. votes in which Israel voted with the United States in 2002: 92.6

Percentage of Middle East Studies professors who defend Zionism and Israel: approximately 1.
Percentage of Middle East Studies professors who believe in diversity on college campuses: 100

Percentage of people who argue that the Jewish state has no right to exist who also believe some other country has no right to exist: 0
Percentage of people who argue that of all the countries in the world, only the Jewish state has no right to exist and yet deny they are anti-Jewish: approximately 100

Number of Muslims in the world: more than 1 billion
Number of Muslim demonstrations against Islamic terror: approximately 2

Source ;

Western politicians - especially socialists - are the cause for opening the borders and therefore causing their fellow citizens loads of pain.

At December 14, 2005 4:18 PM, Blogger Jason_Pappas said...

Thanks for using my quote. I added further thoughts here, where I agree with Ali Sina’s analysis. Will it be enough? I doubt it but a “propaganda war” (or more correctly, an intellectual and moral fight) is a crucial element—first and foremost for our ability to fight effectively and our ability to maintain the resolve. Who ever won a war while trying not to hurt the enemy’s feelings?

At December 18, 2005 5:31 PM, Blogger Heloise said...

The weaknesses in islam are many fold. For instance, their barbaric legal system of the sharia comes to mind. How many modern adulterers are there who don't think twice about what they do? They must know about death by stoning. Or how many bleeding heart leftists know that a thief, even that poor, oppressed little boy stealing food for his family will have his hand chopped off?

How many of our women are happy to be free to choose how their life is to be led? They must know what islam demands from women, about their inequality under the law, how beatings from husbands are legally and religiously sanctioned, about the free pass to practice female genital mutilation, and how always, in all situations there must be complete SUBMISSION to men.

Another weakness to exploit is that islam is a closed system, based on the koran and sunnah contained in the hadiths and biography of mohammed, which can't be changed and once this islamic "box" is understood, all speech and actions of muslim jihadis can be predicted. This understanding can enable us in thinking "outside the box" to find creative ways of dealing with this social and political blight on humanity that passes for a religion.

But remember, we can only exploit any weak points of islam if we know what it is and what its foundational texts contain. Until then, we're flying blind. So we must educate, educate and educate, encourage everyone we know to enlighten themselves about this global menace.

At December 18, 2005 6:46 PM, Blogger netron said...

"Western politicians - especially socialists - are the cause for opening the borders and therefore causing their fellow citizens loads of pain."

wrong wrong wrong - and wrong again.

neo-liberal free marketeers are responsible. whether they belong to a leftist party or rightist party is neither here nor there.

socialists are generally trade unionists - and why would they want an influx of people that will work for less money?

At December 18, 2005 6:51 PM, Blogger netron said...

"or how many bleeding heart leftists"

believe me, here in the UK a lot of leftists are aghast at how seemingly left wing people like George Galloway are aligning themselves with the Islamists.

Theres a heck of a lot of left wingers who could be your allies. Dont dismiss them all, as they are as much a part of Western civilisation as the right wingers. Just remember folks , in places like Saudi Arabia there is no left OR right wing. There's just sharia law.

At December 18, 2005 9:21 PM, Blogger PmH said...

I am surprised that few commentors note that before oil wealth, Moslems were outstanding for their passive fatalism. Look up old dictionaries (before policital correctness era), for the term "musselman". Note the comments of TE Shaw "7 Pillars of Wisdom" (the real Lawrence of Arabia) on the same topic. The answer is find and use fuels that do not accidently finance terrorism.

At December 18, 2005 9:22 PM, Blogger PmH said...

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