Saturday, September 03, 2005

The Last Orthodox Church in Kosovo Might Turn into a Night Club

Now that churches and Christian symbols are targeted even in Sweden, it could be useful to see what will happen to Western Europe unless we deal with the ongoing Jihad and realize that we are in the middle of a world war. If we fail to do so pretty soon, then large parts of Western Europe will go up in flames within a couple of decades:

The Last Orthodox Church in Kosovo Might Turn into a Night Club

According to the new public planning the unfinished orthodox church “Christ, The Savior” in Pristina might be turned into a night club, a studio or a museum. The Parliament had reviewed the suggestion for the new reconstruction of the region on July 15. The plan includes the church and the students’ campus, the electronic edition Holy Gates of Christianity ( reports. The Serbian church has not been informed about the initiative and had reacted sharply to it. “The Church has neither intention, nor the right to turn its sites whose foundations have already been dedicated, into night clubs or galleries. Though over 150 churches and monasteries have been destroyed or seriously damaged over the last 6 years, the new attempt at taking away the last Orthodox Church cannot be seen in any other way than as a wish for impeding the life of the Church and wiping out every single trace of the Serbian people and culture in Kosovo and Metohija”, a declaration of the Rasko-Prizren Eparchy reads.

April 2004:

Kosovo: Church of Christ the Savior in Pristina turned into public toilet

After last month's pogrom during which 35 Orthodox churches were destroyed and whose ashes in several cases stink of human feces and urine, this yet another example of barbaric behavior in the very center of Kosovo's capital. To make matters even worse, this horrific spectacle of the humiliation of a single church and Christianity in general is located in immediate proximity and can be seen from the University Library and Pristina University. Both these institutions were usurped in 199 by the Albanians who summarily expelled all Serb professors and students. What is more, university representatives have been complaining for years to Pristna municipality authorities about the existence of the sole remaining Serbian Orthodox church in the area and asking that it be torn down. The advocates of an ethnically pure, Muslim Kosovo are especially infuriated by the presence of the golden overlay cross which can still be seen from some parts of the city and serves as a sad reminder that Orthodox Christians were once part of the city's population.

The church of Christ the Savior was to have been completed in 1999; however, the eruption of war interrupted further works. The church remains as the unfulfilled wish of the pre-war population of 40,000 Serbs in Pristina to build a new church besides the already existing church of St. Nicholas, which was destroyed during last month's pogrom. Today there are no remaining Serbs in Pristina.


At September 03, 2005 2:37 PM, Blogger erp said...

Why doesn't Clinton tell us again who are the victims and who are the genocidal brutes in the former Yugoslavia? His policies have permitted Iranian arms and Muslim terrorists to pour into an area already famous for being the catalyst for two world wars. There may be no hope for Europe with the Islamic invasion well underway on multiple fronts, the third time may be the charm and Europe will finally succeed in destroying itself.

At September 03, 2005 5:37 PM, Blogger José María said...

Europeans have lost their faith, it´s not difficult to foresee that almost nobody will fight to protect churches or any other christian symbol.

At September 03, 2005 5:41 PM, Blogger Fjordman said...

Erp: I still don't think it's too late to save Europe from Islamization. But it is defintely too late to avoid war, yes.

At September 03, 2005 9:15 PM, Blogger erp said...

fjordman, I agree it's not too late to stem Islamic influence in Europe, although the clock is ticking, but I disagree that it must come to warfare.

Strict enforcement of the law with orders to kill if criminals don't heed the police when they order them "to stop in the name of law." Make it clear, as England and Australia have done, that all immigrants either live peacefully and obey the law of the land or be deported.

o/t I'm quite flabbergasted that Norway hasn't come to our aid with offers of oil. Any ideas about that?

At September 03, 2005 11:35 PM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...

Erp: Strict enforcement of the law with orders to kill if criminals don't heed the police when they order them "to stop in the name of law."

You have just witnessed what happened in New Orleans, and how very thin the surface of civility is, and you think above would do it aginst the Jihad of the coming decades (and in Europe!)

Oh my God, you are naive!

I agree it's not too late to stem Islamic influence in Europe, although the clock is ticking, but I disagree that it must come to warfare.

True. Some of the more peaceloving countries in Europe will probably just hand over the power to the Jihadists without much fuzz. And then "to stop in the name of law", will mean in the name of the Sharia law.

At September 04, 2005 12:14 AM, Blogger Fjordman said...

Herr Unswedenizer: At some point, even Scandinavians won't take it anymore. If it becomes a matter of simple survival, people tend to leave political correctness behind. It may come to that, at least in your country.

At September 04, 2005 12:29 AM, Blogger Pastorius said...

Hi Fjordman,

Here's a quote from a book called Franklin and Winston by Jon Meacham:

Churchill believed that Germany would attempt to avenge November 1918. In a 1935 essay entitled "Hitler and His Choices," Churchill had held out the hope that the fuhrer would bring Germany back "serene, helpful, and strong, to the forefront of the European family circle." But, the warrior-patriot in Churchill suspected what was really afoot. Hitler would arm and defy the rest of the world to stop him.

"If we look only at the past, which is all we have to judge by, we must indeed feel anxious," Churchill wrote.

"Hitherto, Hitler's triumphant career has been borne onwards, not only by a passionate love of Germany, but by currents of hatred so intense as to sear the sould of those who swim upon them."

Now, to be fair, reading history to understand the present can almost be like reading tarot cards. But, how can our friend Bjoern (whom I assume is familiar with the prophetic shoutings of Churchill, and his rejection as a lunatic warmonger) read something like that, and not be embarrassed by his place in the continuum of appeasement?

At September 04, 2005 1:26 AM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...

Fjordman: At some point, even Scandinavians won't take it anymore. If it becomes a matter of simple survival, people tend to leave political correctness behind. It may come to that, at least in your country.

Aww, you just want there to be a war don't you. We are a peaceloving people here in Sweden. We will try the same tactic of collaboration this time just as in the other global fights against a totalitarian threat. I went really well before, you know. And we are still very popular among the nations we betrayed.

There are a lot of goodies for us if we collaborated and submit. We are already protected by Osama bin Laden. He has promised explicitly not to attack us. I think he likes Sweden. That is good for us. Saddam Hussein also likes Sweden. He told us that he wanted to come here and spend a lot of time in our tolerant and comfortable country.

Yes Fjordman, I also know the dark side of this. The will be a minority, maybe a large minority, that will fight with hands and feet against the introduction of Sharia laws here, when the time is ready. And because of their stupidity there will be blood spilled, I know. But we cannot deny the Muslims breaking a few eggs when making the omelet. It would be insensitive to deny them their halal food, you know. But most people will tolerant, and the ones that use violence will be a minority and I doubt very much that their disobedience will distract the lives of the rest of us too much, while they are being dealt with. Just look at the rape victims today. Nobody sees them, nobody cares really. This is just the same thing.

PS. In case someboby asks, I do not know if this is sarcasm. It's too close to reality, for me to know. Rather than sarcasm I believe it is an attempt to uncover the subconscious of the Swedes.

At September 04, 2005 1:42 AM, Blogger ik said...

The links I am giving are related to India - but note the EXACT same PATTTERN of behaviour followed by Muslims towards a completely different culture

Vol 1
Vol 2

At September 04, 2005 2:17 AM, Blogger erp said...

Thanks Herr Unswedenizer. You've made my case for me very nicely. It was lack of self control and any sense of self reliance that caused people who, when left to their own devices, either stood around like cattle in the field and waited for someone else to take charge or reverted to the law of the jungle and like any wild animal, attacked those who came to help them because they lacked the discernment to separate friend from foe.

They had no respect for the New Orleans police because they are no better than the criminals themselves and were unlikely to use force to maintain order. However, as soon as the national guard and the military arrived, the criminal element shaped up because they knew these guys had orders to shoot to protect the innocent people in need.

The media have pretty much ignored it, but the Gulf Coast was hit pretty hard by the hurricane. The affected people are going about getting their lives back together and haven't felt the need to loot and rape, so I wouldn't draw any great lesson from New Orleans other than keeping people in custodial custody for generations dehumanizes them and for this disgrace, all of leftwing moonbattery world wide can take a bow.

The facts are thus: If Europe doesn't take forceful action very soon, it will be too late and the full scale war Fjordman predicts will be unavoidable. I believe that this still can be avoided by exactly what I said, strict enforcement of the law with orders to shoot to kill if necessary those who flout the lawful order of a police officer.

BTW - Why the ad hominem attack? I may be a lot of things, but naive isn't one of them. Why can't you stick to discussing the issues instead of seeking to belittle my position by attempting to belittle me personally? The chances of your being able to get the best of me in an argument by hurling insults is too small to calculate.

At September 04, 2005 2:26 AM, Blogger sissyblue said...

Erp, Excellent! The New Orleans "loot, rape and murder" really does show what the coddling left produces. Victim mentality. "I'm a victim, so anything I do is justified." Same thing with the muslims. They think they're victims of this and that, and anything they do is justified. It's a sort of spoiled brat syndrome.

At September 04, 2005 3:20 AM, Blogger erp said...

orders to kill

At September 04, 2005 4:26 AM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...


You are much more aware than so many other people. But your suggestions here just won't work. Okay, that doesn't make you naive. I'm sorry I said so. It was an outcry.

But let's not get emotional.

The strong reaction on my side is since I thought you were wrong on so many levels here. I'll focus on the most important one:

How could a shoot-to-kill policy stop demographic jihad? Not at all, of course. When the muslims reach 50% they will vote for Sharia, or you'll have had to abolish democracy first. Which way do you go?

And you know, peace is not the worst thing that we can lose, freedom is. War is not the worst that can happen to us, Sharia is.

At September 04, 2005 5:10 AM, Blogger erp said...


I never said a shoot-to-kill policy would stop a demographic jihad.

What it will do, is stop lawlessness.

It's a very simple idea. People who commit violent crimes must be removed from society one way or the other. This will get the attention of other potential troublemakers. It works very well as has been proven in one fell swoop in New Orleans.

Nobody was shot, but violence subsided and they were able to make headway in the evacuation process. Some diehard fools are setting fires now and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are shot. That'll be the death knell to decades of corruption on a scale that's difficult to comprehend.

At September 04, 2005 6:05 AM, Blogger Mike H. said...

erp, hold on just a minute and see who gives the order. The governor is the only one authorized to give the order to use deadly force and the NG is still saying today that they are only in defensive mode.

At September 04, 2005 6:06 AM, Blogger Mike H. said...

BTW, Chief Justice Rehnquist just died tonight.

At September 04, 2005 2:14 PM, Blogger erp said...

mike h - The governor, like the mayor, has proven herself to be incompetent bordering on malfeasance. Their demonstrated inability to provide leadership necessitated deployment of the military to maintain order and to allow the evacuation to proceed in an orderly manner.

Just their presence in the streets sobered up the wilders and do you think for one moment the troops will stand idly by and let rampaging street thugs further exacerbate the situation by setting fires?

I'm sick of trolls who have nothing to offer but the same old liberal line. Appeasement leads to more bad behavior. This is not a subject for debate, but has been proven time and again. Once things get out of control as they have in certain parts of New Orleans, only a strong show of force will be able to keep the peace.

Nobody wants any shooting, but the first obligation of government is to see to the safety of the weakest among us and that's what the soldiers are in New Orleans to do.

At September 04, 2005 2:21 PM, Blogger erp said...

Check this out. When even the NYT gets it, it must be pretty obvious.

At September 04, 2005 5:01 PM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...

Erp: What it will do, is stop lawlessness.

Obviously yes. But it won't stop a war or a hostile take-over. (Don't change your position!)

And you didn't answer my question: Would you keep democarcy so that a muslim majority would vote for an Islamic constitution with Sharia laws, or would you rather put an end to democracy so that western values can prevail? (All while upholding a regime of shoot-to-kill policy, of course).

The problem here, Erp, is that you think just like John Kerry (may I call him naive?).
Read my lips: This is not a law enforcement issue!

The best law enforcement could do is stalling. It's not a way to halt the rolling snowball, it's not an "exit strategy".

But yes Erp, we would need much more law enforcement here in Europe, at this point. But we have deprived ourselves of all the necessary resources for this. Especially in a civil disorder breakdown such as in New Orleans, there won't be the extra national guard and military resources that where inevitable in order to bring order back.

So we should get those resources, yeah yeah... Well first you need to de-program the twisted minds of the Europeans. You have no idea, Erp, you have no idea. I know you are only trying to help, but you have no idea. This is a lost continent. At least if you want freedom and peace.

There's no way to fight this alone, as a single person, while at the same time all your countrymen have turned against you. It's not only impossible. It is completely pointless. It's like living among pod people (the body-snatchers). But then Sweden is worst among the worst. Not all Europeans are pod people.

But then again. This won't stop demographic jihad a single bit. Also for the U.S. would you have the the same percentage of muslims and the same momentum of the demographic jihad, law enforcement, no matter how hard, would not be a way through to stop the hostile take-over and the civil war that it will lead to.

So for the U.S. where there is still a chance to hinder the development, the best law enforcement now would be to stop all muslim immigration. That's more important than anything else. In Europe this development has already passed the point of no return.

At September 04, 2005 6:30 PM, Blogger erp said...

I guess you didn't read my first comment on this post. Click over to it.

"Make it clear, as England and Australia have done, that all immigrants either live peacefully and obey the law of the land or be deported."

It's not a law of physics that you will have a Muslim majority. You control your borders and say who may or may not become citizens, or who may or may not vote. It's not a insurmountable problem at all.

It's only looming so large because neither you nor any of your countrymen and women seem to be willing to take the necessary steps, like keeping an effective police force and/or a militia, to provide for your security. To Americans, this is mind boggling.

I suggested that you not take a lesson from the lawlessness in New Orleans. There's absolutely no analogy to conditions in Scandinavia. We, the people, wanted our troops to go in and establish order which they did and in a couple of days order will be restored, the troops will be deployed elsewhere and the big job of rebuilding will begin.

You are misreading my intentions in making comments on this blog. I'm not, in my inadequate and uninformed way, trying to 'help.' I'm merely commenting on the various issues Fjordman posts to his blog. I first learned about from a comment on LGF and have enjoyed his hospitality ever since and I thank him for letting me visit. When something interests me, I'll add my two-cents. If see something factually in error, I'll try to provide the facts with links if possible.

So, it's none of my business if Sweden wants to give over their sovereignty to 7th century savages. It would be a real shame, but people make choices and then live with the consequences.

At September 04, 2005 8:08 PM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...

You are right, Erp. It's all mind boggling.

The problem is that the measures taken by the UK and Australia is too little and too late.
You are right, I disregarded your comment about deportations (but as put by you it is still just an extension of the law enforcement idea). The problem is that what will be needed would be mass deportations. And who do you suppose is willing to recieve them? And the kind of law enforcement necessary, at this point, in order to be successful has to amount to a police state. So the future of Europe is really the choice between two kinds of fascism. To me both means the end of Europe as we know it today. But for the women there is only one sensible choice: avoiding Sharia at any cost!

If Western Europe had followed your advice three decades ago -- including stopping muslim immigration -- and if the West had stopped buying oil from the Muslims three decades ago, then yes, it would have worked. But now it's far too late. And the will among Europeans to do anything about it does not even yet exists.

The measures taken by the UK and Australia are the correct ones, but it won't stop the war from coming.

And talking about me, I'm willing to do a lot to save the West. But who do you suggest that I should do it with? People in Europe who are trying to save the West, such as for example Pim Fortuyn, are killed for trying to do so -- by Westerners! At least for Sweden, there is no hope. I'm the enemy of the state, for the will to save it.

Read also my posts in the New Orleans thread. The likely effect of harder law enforcement, at this point, is to provoke the second stage of Jihad to start earlier.

I'm not against law enforcement. I'm just telling you that the situation is so bad, that it will not stop civil wars around Europe. Not at this point.

Actually I'm welcoming the war. It is the only thing that can shift the minds of people. The sooner the better, the more can be saved. E.g. 911 was a huge mistake by the Jihadists. Now the West is fighting them in many places. Without 911 they would have been able to bring the gullible Westerners much deeper into the shit, before striking.

And of course, the positive thing in all this misery, is that we have reached a point where we will start seeing the end of 1400 years of Islamic rule, terror and oppression on a global level. The immanent misery of the Europeans implies a better future for the children of the Middle East.

At September 04, 2005 9:42 PM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...

Erp: It's not a law of physics that you will have a Muslim majority. You control your borders and say who may or may not become citizens, or who may or may not vote. It's not a insurmountable problem at all.

You haven't understood the nature of the demographic forces in action, and to what point of momentum that it has already reached. Even if we stop all muslim immigration this day. And even if we deport all openly hostile elements, they will outnumber us easily during this century merely by the power of breeding.

What are you suggesting? Mass deportations? Sterlilizations? Clearly, either way Europe is changed forever.

Read more about the history of Jihad, and you will realize how very powerful the force of demographic Jihad is. It's not like you are the first one in the history of mankind that came up with this idea. But people always thought of it to late, and so far it has never succeeded in stopping the Islamic expansion, once it has gotten to this point.

Except for of course... the Spanish Reconquista. But the law enforcement policies of the UK and Australia haven't quite yet reached this level.

At September 04, 2005 10:25 PM, Blogger erp said...


I mean no disrespect, nor am I being sarcastic, but have you ever read the fable of Chicken Little?

At September 05, 2005 12:11 AM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...


You are in denial. You just cannot imagine the order around us in the West dissolve. But it has happened before, and it will happen again.

I think you live in a dreamworld where it's only PC left-wingers that can be gullible and unsuspecting, and never people like you.

It's not a left-right thing to be in denial about a coming war. Just look at Neville Chamberlain. He was very much a Conservative.

You will have to consider again the power of exponential growth. Remember when I AlwaysOnWatch said he agreed with my terms trad-wing/dhimmi-wing, and I said to him: "If people who adopt it continue to double at this pace, it will soon catch on all over the world."

How soon? I will tell you. It took him about an hour to adopt it. If it continues to double at this speed, the whole world would agree within one and a half day. If you start with one, and double it 33 times, you end up with 8 billions.

Thanks to Western Medicine the Muslim population grows exponentially today at an incredible speed, in a way never seen before in history.

You might know a lot about chickens, dear friend, but I'd say you don't know much about math. And even I am amazed by the power of exponential growth. It's hard to take it in.

If it hadn't been for this, what you suggested might have worked.

But when you take the Islamic duty to breed, and combine it with the wonders of Western Medicine, and consider the power of exponential growth, then you've got a very mighty cocktail before you, such as have never been seen before in history.

Do you understand?

At September 05, 2005 12:45 AM, Blogger Fjordman said...

erp: I'm sorry, but I still don't think you fully understand wwhat we're up against.

At September 05, 2005 1:22 AM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...

And I'm sorry I called you naive. Pretty please!

At September 05, 2005 1:32 AM, Blogger erp said...

Herr Unswedenizer

This is crazy.

You don't think you can stop Muslims from taking over while they're still very much in the minority and you control the security forces, such as they are, but you think you can win a full scale war when their numbers will have increased and your resolve will have weakened even further.

Who will be doing the fighting for you? If you're counting on us to jump in, I think you'll be disappointed this time. Even dumb Yanks like us can't be snookered three times in a row.

And again, please stop the personal attacks. Your argument, not matter how brilliant, falls apart when you try to denigrate your opponent's person rather than speak to his, or as in this case, her argument.

Chicken Little is a fable about naiveté, it's not about chickens and as it happens, I have zero knowledge of poultry, but know quite a lot about mathematics. I even know all about arithmetic, exponents and the multiplication tables.

Fjordman, I have a lot of respect for you even though I don't agree with all your positions. Your posts are well researched and well written and your choice of material is positively brilliant. I know how much time and effort it takes to consistently come up with articles not seen elsewhere among the blogs.

I do understand that you're facing this situation almost single-handedly. Only you know how many of your countrymen and women are with you. From your despondency, I surmise that there aren't many you can count on for support and to top it off, you need to worry about the thought police finding you and closing down your blog and maybe worse.

If you can't convince your fellow countrymen and women to take their heads out of the sand and deal with a bad situation, it might be time for you to cut your loses and relocate to a friendlier clime.

At September 05, 2005 2:00 AM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...


We can stop the Jihadists, but the measures that it takes will lead to a war. Why don't you just read what I write?

At September 05, 2005 2:16 AM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...

And let's work together on this!

And, Erp, I thought I was quite polite back considering that you tried to be nasty to me. But then again, I'm probably a bit nasty by nature. But I mean really well!

Anyway, as you said, let's stop this.

At September 05, 2005 2:25 AM, Blogger erp said...

I have read your comments. You expect that the measures you take to stem an Islamist takeover of Sweden, will lead to war, a war you can't win because Muslim women's fertility combined with their access to western medicine, will swell their numbers while the numbers of Swedes will continue to decline and Muslims will be in the majority by some date in the near future.

In addition, few of your countrymen and women see things your way and they're proceeding with business as usual. They either don't know or don't care that their civilization will be destroyed probably within the lifetimes of the younger generations.

Is this a fair synposis?

What I'm not clear about is the nature of this war.

At September 05, 2005 2:42 AM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...

Hi again!

I never said demographic jihad means that we cannot win the war. I said that it means that we cannot avoid the war.

The nature of this war... PD111 described it as a global civil war... New Orleans gave me an idea of it... Think Iraq, but in many places around the world.

At September 05, 2005 2:45 AM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...

We should expect nukes to. And levees being blown up.

At September 05, 2005 3:40 AM, Blogger erp said...

Why did what happened in New Orleans lead you to think of a global civil war? The events of the past week were neither global nor a war. The tragedy that ensued was the malfeasance of a mayor and governor who inexplicably failed to implement their own
emergency evacuation plan. If you watch CNN, you can't really expect to know what's going on.

At September 05, 2005 4:33 AM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...


It didn't.

At September 05, 2005 5:05 AM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...

I can write to you about the lessons of New Orleans tomorrow. But I believe that I have already said it if you look around in other threads.

At September 05, 2005 5:53 AM, Blogger erp said...

Here's a quote from your comment:

"The nature of this war... PD111 described it as a global civil war... New Orleans gave me an idea of it... "

At September 05, 2005 5:45 PM, Blogger Herr Unswedenizer said...

Obviously New Orleans was neither global nor war (thank you for pointing it out). So what do you think that I mean? You'll find the answer among the things that I have written here and in other threads.


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